Command central of the county board meets in a “Pre-Board Meeting Chairs Meeting” on Thursday’s at 3:30 a week before each board meeting. I’m told there are no agendas or minutes of these meetings. So, what do they talk about?
WHAT DOES THE LAW SAY?
I feel like I’ve written this a bagillion times, but here we go again.
Message from the Office of Open Government – as a reminder of why this is important.
“It is imperative that we recognize that transparency is the cornerstone of democracy and that citizens cannot hold elected officials accountable in a representative government unless government is performed in the open.”
and
“Wisconsin’s open government laws promote democracy by ensuring that all state, regional and local governments conduct their business with transparency. Wisconsin citizens have a right to know how their government is spending their tax dollars and exercising the powers granted by the people.”
Open Meetings Law
In recognition of the fact that a representative government of the American type is dependent upon an informed electorate, it is declared to be the policy of this state that the public is entitled to the fullest and most complete information regarding the affairs of government as is compatible with the conduct of governmental business. Wis. Stat. § 19.81(1).
“all meetings of all state and local governmental bodies shall be publicly held in places reasonably accessible to members of the public and shall be open to all citizens at all times unless otherwise expressly provided by law.” Wis. Stat. § 19.81(2).
What is a “governmental body”?
[A] state or local agency, board, commission, council, department or public body corporate and politic created by constitution, statute, ordinance, rule or order; a governmental or quasi-governmental corporation except for the Bradley Center sports and entertainment corporation; a local exposition district under subch. II of ch. 229; a long-term care district under s. 46.2895; or a formally constituted subunit of any of the foregoing, but excludes any such body or committee or subunit of such body which is formed for or meeting for the purpose of collective bargaining under subch. I, IV, V, or VI of ch. 111. Wis. Stat. § 19.82(1).
State and local bodies created by “rule or order” are also included in the definition. The term “rule or order” has been liberally construed to include any directive, formal or informal, creating a body and assigning it duties. 78 Op. Att’y Gen. 67, 68–69 (1989). This includes directives from governmental bodies, presiding officers of governmental bodies, or certain governmental officials, such as county executives, mayors, or heads of a state or local agency, department, or division. See 78 Op. Att’y Gen. 67.
But . . . but . . . but . . .
You can try all the tecnicalities in the world to try to get out of the meetings below being a meeting that needs to be publicly notices, but on page 6 and 7 of the guide it is abundantly clear:
A “formally constituted subunit” of a governmental body is itself a “governmental body” within the definition in Wis. Stat. § 19.82(1). A subunit is a separate, smaller body created by a parent body and composed exclusively of members of the parent body.52
Groups that include both members and non-members of a parent body are not “subunits” of the parent body. Such groups nonetheless frequently fit within the definition of a “governmental body”—e.g., as advisory groups to the governmental bodies or government officials that created them.
Any entity that fits within the definition of “governmental body” must comply with the requirements of the open meetings law. In most cases, it is readily apparent whether a particular body fits within the definition. On occasion, there is some doubt. Any doubts as to the applicability of the open meetings law should be resolved in favor of complying with the law’s requirements.
So what are government bodies required to do?
The two most basic requirements of the open meetings law are that a governmental body:
(1) give advance public notice of each of its meetings, and
(2) conduct all of its business in open session, unless an exemption to the open session requirement applies. Wis. Stat. § 19.83.
OPEN RECORDS REQUEST
I recently filed two open records requests. Well, not so recently, it was nearly 2 months ago. I sent this one to the county board staff, thinking I’d get a more straightforward, timely response. The second request I sent to elected officials on Nov. 6th and I neither got an answer to that request or my follow up request on December 15th for an estimate on when I would get a response.
The one for the purposes of this blog post was as follows:
| from: | Brenda Konkelbrendakonkel@gmail.com | ||
| to: | “Thurlow, Karin Peterson” <peterson.karin@countyofdane.com> |
||
| date: | Nov 5, 2019, 10:44 PM | ||
| subject: | open records request | ||
| mailed-by: | gmail.com |
Please send me the agendas, minutes or any records for the meeting that is held with the County Board chair and the committee chairs. I would like the records for all of 2019. If there are no records, please send the dates and times of all such meetings and who was in attendance or invited to attend.
ANSWER TO OPEN RECORDS REQUEST
Cover letter – 12272019 response_cover
December 27, 2019
Brenda Konkel
Via email to: Brendakonkel@gmail.com
RE: Open Records Request
Dear Ms. Konkel:
Attached please find documents in response to your open records request. Please know that some of the documents you requested do not exist, so to the extent a response is required to such requests, your request for documents that do not exist is denied.
Pursuant to. § 19.35(4)(b) Wis. Stats, I am required to inform you that if you disagree with any determinations contained in this letter, you may seek review by mandamus under Section 19.37(1) Wis. Stats, or by application to the attorney general or a district attorney.
Sincerely,
Dan Lowndes
Risk Manager and Records Control Officer
Meeting records – 20191108093650
The documents that were not available are agendas or minutes of the meetings. The only records that they provided were invitations to participate in person in the “County Board Office Conference Room” or by phone via computer, tablet, smartphone, phone through GoToMeeting.
The meetings are just labeled “Chairs Meeting”. It’s unclear if that is mean to mean that it is a meeting of the county board chair, or chairs of county board committees. Without the apostrophe, I would presume the second. However, starting in August the apostophe appears for a couple meetings. “8/29 Chair’s Meeting” and “9/12 Chair’s Meeting”
WHAT INFO DID I GET FROM THE REQUEST?
The meetings started off with 7 supervisors, then they slowly started adding more by August they were up to 10 supervisors. They also added staff and ended up with meetings with up to 14 people in attendance.
In 2019 they met on the following dates with the following people invited. I added the titles of the people attending the first time they appear to be clear in case people are unaware of their titles. Some changed throughout the year and I added the dates when I could find them in legistar.
- 1/31
- Required attendees:
- Michele Ritt (Chair of Environment, Agriculture & Natural Resources Committee & Yahara Chain of Lakes – Lake Levels Task Force)
- Sharon Corrigan (Chair of the County Board & Executive Committee)
- Paul Nelson (Vice Chair of the County Board, Chair of Public Works and Transportation until May 2019, listed as Vice Chair of Personnel & Finance starting 5/31/19 but so is Annaleise Eicher)
- Jamie Kuhn (Chair of Health and Human Needs)
- Patrick Miles (Chair of Personnel and Finance)
- Maureen McCarville (Chair of Public Protection and Judiciary)
- Jerome Bollig (Chair of Zoning and Land Regulation Committee)
- Required attendees:
- 2/14
- Required attendees
- Michele Ritt
- Sharon Corrigan
- Paul Nelson
- Jamie Kuhn
- Patrick Miles
- Maureen McCarville
- Jerome Bollig
- Required attendees
- 2/28
- Required attendees (added Young and Eicher)
- Michele Ritt
- Sharon Corrigan
- Paul Nelson
- Jamie Kuhn
- Patrick Miles
- Maureen McCarville
- Jerome Bollig
- Hayley Young (Vice Chair of Health and Human Needs)
- Analiese Eicher (2nd Vice Chair of the County Board, listed as Vice Chair of Personnel and Finance starting 5/30/19 but so is Paul Nelson)
- Required attendees (added Young and Eicher)
- 3/14
- Required attendees
- Michele Ritt
- Sharon Corrigan
- Paul Nelson
- Jamie Kuhn
- Patrick Miles
- Maureen McCarville
- Jerome Bollig
- Hayley Young
- Analiese Eicher
- Required attendees
- 4/4
- Required attendees (Added Paul Rusk, removed McCarville)
- Michele Ritt
- Paul Rusk (Chair of the Airport Commission – Noise Abatement Subcommittee)
- Sharon Corrigan
- Paul Nelson
- Jamie Kuhn
- Patrick Miles
- Jerome Bollig
- Hayley Young
- Analiese Eicher
- Required attendees (Added Paul Rusk, removed McCarville)
- 4/25
- Required attendees (Back to McCarville, no Rusk)
- Michele Ritt
- Sharon Corrigan
- Paul Nelson
- Jamie Kuhn
- Patrick Miles
- Maureen McCarville
- Jerome Bollig
- Hayley Young
- Analiese Eicher
- Required attendees (Back to McCarville, no Rusk)
- 5/9
- Required attendees
- Michele Ritt
- Sharon Corrigan
- Paul Nelson
- Jamie Kuhn
- Patrick Miles
- Maureen McCarville
- Jerome Bollig
- Hayley Young
- Analiese Eicher
- Required attendees
- 5/30
- Required attendees
- Michele Ritt
- Sharon Corrigan
- Paul Nelson
- Jamie Kuhn
- Patrick Miles
- Maureen McCarville
- Jerome Bollig
- Hayley Young
- Analiese Eicher
- Required attendees
- 6/13
- Required attendees (Added staff Lauren Kuhl, Policy Analyst and Karin Thurlow Peterson, Chief of Staff and Supervisor Dave Ripp)
- Michele Ritt
- Sharon Corrigan
- Paul Nelson
- Jamie Kuhn
- Patrick Miles
- Maureen McCarville
- Jerome Bollig
- Hayley Young
- Analiese Eicher
- Optional Attendees
- Dave Ripp (Became chair of Public Works and Transportation for June 11th meeting)
- Required attendees (Added staff Lauren Kuhl, Policy Analyst and Karin Thurlow Peterson, Chief of Staff and Supervisor Dave Ripp)
- 8/8
-
- Required attendees
- Michele Ritt
- Sharon Corrigan
- Paul Nelson
- Jamie Kuhn
- Patrick Miles
- Maureen McCarville
- Jerome Bollig
- Hayley Young
- Analiese Eicher
- Optional Attendees
- Dave Ripp
- Required attendees
-
- 8/29
-
- Required attendees
- Michele Ritt
- Sharon Corrigan
- Paul Nelson
- Jamie Kuhn
- Patrick Miles
- Maureen McCarville
- Jerome Bollig
- Hayley Young
- Analiese Eicher
- Lauren Kuhl
- Karin Thurlow Peterson
- Optional Attendees
- Dave Ripp
- Required attendees
-
- 9/12
-
- Required attendees (Added Lindsay Menard, Legislative Management System Specialist/Policy Analyst and Josh Schroeder, Clerk I-II)
- Jerome Bollig
- Michele Ritt
- Sharon Corrigan
- Paul Nelson
- Jamie Kuhn
- Patrick Miles
- Maureen McCarville
- Hayley Young
- Analiese Eicher
- Lauren Kuhl
- Karin Thurlow Peterson
- Lindsay Menard
- Josh Schroeder
- Optional Attendees
- Dave Ripp
- Required attendees (Added Lindsay Menard, Legislative Management System Specialist/Policy Analyst and Josh Schroeder, Clerk I-II)
-
- 9/26
-
- Jerome Bollig
- Michele Ritt
- Sharon Corrigan
- Paul Nelson
- Jamie Kuhn
- Patrick Miles
- Maureen McCarville
- Hayley Young
- Analiese Eicher
- Lauren Kuhl
- Karin Thurlow Peterson
- Lindsay Menard
- Josh Schroeder
- Optional Attendees
- Dave Ripp
-
- 10/10
- Required Attendees
- Jerome Bollig
- Michele Ritt
- Sharon Corrigan
- Paul Nelson
- Jamie Kuhn
- Maureen McCarville
- Hayley Young
- Analiese Eicher
- Lauren Kuhl
- Karin Thurlow Peterson
- Lindsay Menard
- Josh Schroeder
- Optional Attendees
- Dave Ripp
- Patrick Miles
- Required Attendees
- 10/31
- Required Attendees
- Jerome Bollig
- Michele Ritt
- Sharon Corrigan
- Paul Nelson
- Jamie Kuhn
- Maureen McCarville
- Hayley Young
- Analiese Eicher
- Lauren Kuhl
- Karin Thurlow Peterson
- Lindsay Menard
- Josh Schroeder
- Optional Attendees
- Dave Ripp
- Patrick Miles
- Required Attendees
- 11/14
- Required Attendees
- Jerome Bollig
- Michele Ritt
- Sharon Corrigan
- Paul Nelson
- Jamie Kuhn
- Maureen McCarville
- Hayley Young
- Analiese Eicher
- Lauren Kuhl
- Karin Thurlow Peterson
- Lindsay Menard
- Josh Schroeder
- Optional Attendees
- Dave Ripp
- Patrick Miles
- Required Attendees
- 12/12
- Required Attendees
- Jerome Bollig
- Michele Ritt
- Sharon Corrigan
- Paul Nelson
- Jamie Kuhn
- Maureen McCarville
- Hayley Young
- Analiese Eicher
- Pat Miles
- Lauren Kuhl
- Karin Thurlow Peterson
- Lindsay Menard
- Josh Schroeder
- Optional Attendees
- Dave Ripp
- Required Attendees
I HAVE SOME FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS
So, what was the agenda for these meetings, and where are the minutes? What did they discuss? And who will fess up? I shouldn’t have to, but I sent an email today to all the attendees as follows:
Re: Open records request
Please see the attached schedule of meetings. The attached indicates that you were invited to the meetings. Please confirm which meetings you were actually in attendance and what was discussed at each meeting. Additionally, please send any agendas, minutes, communications or notes either written or electronic (including emails, texts or social media communications) related to the meetings that you attended.
Any bets on how long it takes to get an answer? The third sentence probably isn’t actually required, but in the interest of transparency, I’m hoping they will just answer.
OK, SO WHAT DO YOU WANT TO HAPPEN KONKEL?
Bottom line: open and transparent government. I could file a complaint and they could all get fined $25 – $200 per meeting if the D.A. took it seriously. I have no hope for that and I’m not sure that would change anything. What I want to happen, is what the intent of the law is . . . transparency. I want them to change the way the operate.
I’m slightly hopeful with the new county board and the dramatic turnover (at least 11 new supervisors of 37) that they will enact policies that increase transparency and operate in a more open fashion.
I’m hoping without lame duck Chair Sharon Corrigan there to threaten their committee chairpersonships, that the people in attendance will come clean and feel empowered to change the way things are done.
I’m hoping that with the “old guard” leaving, and a massive change in leadership, that the new leaders will honor the public and our democracy and not act like the state legislature led by Republicans.
I’m hoping if people don’t feel like all they do is follow orders and that they get elected to represent the people that voted for them, maybe more people would run for all these county board seats up for election.
And, I’m hoping people will be informed about who we are voting for in April and what they really stand for. And ask them to do better.
Note: This article does not represent the opinions or wishes of any organization for which I belong to. In fact, it may be quite the opposite of what people and organizations to which I am affiliated would want. This blog post is entirely the views, opinions and actions of the author, Brenda K. Konkel. If there is blowback, send it my way.
