Watch the video and a quick recap. Also my comments about how the candidates did.
This forum was held last Thursday night, February 26th at the Brink Lounge. The noise you hear in the background is about 200 people from Google and Community Shares of Wisconsin enjoying free beer at a happy hour. Meanwhile, about 40 people who were not press or connected to the campaign were attending this forum sponsored by the Greater Williamson St. Business Association, Capitol East Business Association (including E. Johnson St. Businesses) and Atwood Winnebago Area Business Association.
Opening Statements
Mayor Paul Soglin: Madison is a special place. We have done well statistically in livability, we set standards on unemployment, quality of life, cultural opportunities, business start ups, but the enjoyment of this is not shared by all the communities residents. We were doing well until the recession and the an enormous gap began to occur. We have issues in poverty and equity, that was denied by his opponents, but now we have the Race to Equity Report. He hopes we continue in the direction they started in 2011 to address the gap. He says the school district is important to the well being of everyone. He need systems to address the challenges.
No points. Nothing spectacular.
Alder Scott Resnick: He says he’d probably be more comfortable out in the other room because he started a small business, he employs 22 people. We are at a turning point, the decisions we make today and tomorrow will dictate what kind of a community we become and how prosperity is shared in this community. He looks at the reasons we are at this critical point, he looks at what Epic has done for this community. What small and creative businesses do in our community, we are no longer a boomerang town. This is not a city people leave and come back to, it is now a destination. But we have challenges, people are concerned with the influx of new individuals, what does this do to our quality of life. (Whoa, is he talking about Epic employees or low-income people “from Chicago”?) What is it like when we have more people living in a dense isthmus. We also have challenges, cuts to schools and university, increased issues with homelessness and racial disparities. How can address the issues and how we be innovative and look at best practices and leverage and come together as a community. 7 of his colleagues are endorsing him, more than any other candidate in the race, because they know how he works and he listens and works together. Even those who he votes against are supporting him after working with both him and the mayor. He wants to know how we listen to our neighbors, work together and outline strategies to address problems in the community and hold ourselves accountable. He thinks we can be better by investing in public services, investing in community places, transportation networks to benefit all community members.
No points, but nice jab at the mayor about having 7 council members supporting him, after they have worked with both of the candidates. Otherwise, also not very spectacular.
They said essentially the same thing. Madison is great, we have problems, have to work on them.
On the east side they are proud of their locally owned and operated businesses, with the surge of mixed use development in the East Washington corridor and the isthmus, what can the city do to continue the precedent of prioritizing local businesses.
Mayor Paul Soglin says that the last few years he has placed a great deal of emphasis on local businesses and the advantages that they bring to the community. Its not just the entrepreneur that becomes successful and remains in Madison, but we need to build jobs and the tax base. It the participation in civic engagement and commitment to keep the business local, not leaving. He says a few things can be done, first in this years budget there is $1M for worker owned cooperatives, it is an effort to grow on the success of Willy St. Coop, Union Cab, Isthmus Engineering, cooperatives where they don’t need to worry about the owner selling, taking off and the buyer disappearing with the intellectual property. For local businesses they can work on zoning and local design requirements, one of the beauties of State St, and Williamson St. and Monroe St. is the assortment of different buildings which do not make for a footprint acceptable to national change. We have design elements we can work with. We have funding, design, zoning and vital economic development department available to provide technical assistance and connections.
Plus one. Good answer. Like the emphasis on cooperatives, a little weak on the zoning and design issue.
Alder Scott Resnick says the Mayor hits on the issues. He is on the plan commission, they decide if a project moves forward based on the footprint of the first floor, proper entrances and exits, making sure that there is a small locally run business that is not overpriced. He looks at Capital Entrepreneurs, which he helped start, where they talk about issues, struggle together and in a collective voice bring forward issues, that can have success. That is why organizations like this, we listen to your thoughts and make sure local businesses have success. He made the decision to stay in Madison, not move his business to San Francisco or Chicago. He knows its the important that local profits are a way to make Madison a great place to live.
Minus one, he said nothing. Platitudes and empty words, nothing concrete. Best I got is he’s going to listen, which is what every politician says.
Mayor Soglin is offered a chance to rebut. He says lets move on – probably because there was nothing to respond to.
Score: Paul +1, Scott -1.
Here on the near East side parking and the lack thereof has been discussed as limiting business growth, do you believe that construction of a public parking ramp in this area would be a positive step and if so what would you do to build or incentivize a parking structure in this area.
Resnick: He believes parking is critical, especially structured parking. He says that living on an isthmus it makes sense to have structured parking on the isthmus. He looks at he is looking to make with a non-profit Starting Block which will create new manufacturing and job creation in the downtown. Critical to that is all modes of transportation, bikes, shared car and parking, making sure people can find a bus and get there in rapid time. He was encouraged in the capital budget to see studies in this area and he is excited to bring more parking to this part of town.
Minus one, he doesn’t have any plans of details, supports what the mayor did. Plus, did he say he was investing in a nonprofit? How does that work? Isn’t that the definition of a nonprofit?
Soglin: He says they both support parking, the real question is who has the capability to deal with the complicated nature of working with various groups to make it happen. The State St. Mall wasn’t easy, the capital concourse, the Civic Center which grew into Overture. 50 years of struggle and they did Monona Terrace. When he came in to office in 2011 they had the worst vacancy rate in the United States of the 100 largest cities, since that time they have changed the vacancy rate and almost doubled it, but they are far from 5% which is a balanced market. There are now over 5,000 units of housing completed or under construction. When he came into office there were dreams of Capital East, the city had acquired Don Miller and Union Corners. One portion of Don Miller is under construction, another portion is completed, the third portion is where they put $1.5M for Starting Block that he put in the budget and got unanimous support of the city council, the point is creating the parking. This parking would not be possible if we didn’t have new state legislation which allows municpalities to use TIF towards construction of a ramp. There’s are a lot of mayors around the state that can say they got anything out of the legislature that was truly constructive and conducive to economic development while they are running around undermining the vitality of the state with right to work and tax cuts, which is not how you build a sound economy, it is built through investment in education and infrastructure such as the ramp which would serve this vital area.
Plus one. He has not only a plan, but a way to pay for it, concrete plans that he did help make happen, not just take credit for.
Resnick rebuttal: None, they agree.
Score: Soglin +2, Resnick -2
They follow up and ask for more detail, they want specifics. Given Breese Stevens and Central Park, where would you propose a structure would be sited.
Mayor says they are under study now looking at sites, they think the best site is a block from here to the east and one block in off Main St.
Resnick says that they could have also looked at the water utility site, when it comes to eventual parking we should not close the door until something is found, he tried to introduce that at the council level, it was shot down. They have to work with private developers as well to make sure they have adequate parking. As there are more concerts at Breese Stevens Field, after we made an investment in that, we need parking. Central Park becomes more and more of a struggle as residents are coming back with concerns about parking, we also need multimodal opportunities in those areas.
Extra point to Resnick for coming back with concrete answers. Nothing wrong with the mayor’s answer, just no extra credit. He’s studying and doing his job and paying attention.
Score: Soglin +2, Resnick -1
There has been an ongoing discussion about the need for more retail in the downtown area and Capitol East district, please explain explain your position on the future of retail in the district and downtown area.
Soglin: He says this also applies to Williamson St, Norris Court area, Monroe St., Cottage Grove Rd Corridor and South Park St. He starts with the focus on State St. and the square. The public has invested $100M to make this a vital space, when we did that we didn’t have a 7-11 in mind, he warned this was a trend, there was push back some of the business association, but we have seen a significant shift as establishments that sell liquor are taking over the retail space. One of the advantages we have is that as we have more density, that will create the demand. Scott has been critical that he is not listening to the residents, he says he has been listening for 4 years. He has been listening for 40 years and it is clear what the residents want, they want clothing, books, household goods, food. It is clear this is what they want, it is their obligation to address this issue and figure out how they are going to use zoning, and the management of space to create an environment that is not 7-11 and CVS and specific chains that you can see anywhere in any suburban mall, but instead get those that are locally owned and provide for the needs of the people who live there. When someone goes to the farmers market and then walks down State St., if they are encountering chain after chain after chain, we are going to have a problem. It started on Willy St. in 1973 Taco John tried to locate there, the area businesses and resident rebelled and there is not a park there, that is how the park came to be. That might not be the solution everywhere, but it is better than a Taco John’s.
Plus one. Just because I totally agree with him, but also because he has detail to his answer, but I didn’t hear so much what will happen specifically going forward. Pains me, but its true, I just agree with him.
Resnick: He says that they agree that they don’t want a 7-11 on State St. He says that the needs of the residents in the area need to drive the decisions, they will be shopping there and participating in the businesses success. He says what is going on on State St., young professionals, like him and his wife, are not being listened to. We are seeing threats of moratoriums on bars as if that is the answer, we are talking about retail goods and threats of mega saloons and he is still trying to figure out what is a mega saloon and which one has opened up in the last 2 – 3 years. He hasn’t seen it, he has seen more investments in restaurants, an energy and vitality, he has not seen it in the last 5 years. There are pressures and concerns with the new development. There are concerns with traditional businesses have a decent amount of stress, we can look at zoning, that is one area of approach. But we need to make sure we bring everyone to the table to say what is the future of this plan. He is glad they have a planning process, but we can’t say that we know all the answers before it begins and he is looking forward to that conversation.
Minus one. I just disagree and hate the whiny nature of his answer. Me, me, me is what I get when he talks about the young professionals not being heard. Also, I think his answer ignores all the research and work that has been done in the downtown area for years. Mega saloon was term coined by DMI types and he should very well know what that is, they’re the ones that originally brought it up. The thought of more planning for downtown to address issues missed in the downtown plan is good, it sounds like he wants to start over.
Score: Soglin +3, Resnick -2
Soglin rebuttal: He says State St. has dropped form 70% retail to 40% retail, that replacement is liquor and in some instances food. They can afford, say property owners on State St., they can afford to pay higher rents on that space than can dry good retailers, that is what is happening, the economics of it. What he has asked is a moratorium on liquor licenses and that any space that was previously non-liquor not become liquor, until we spend the next year or two. He is afraid we are at a tipping point where we will lose the essence of the street. When you walk down there during the day with your friends and walk past bar after bar and eventually get to one retailer like missing teeth in a smile. If we lose the dynamics of enough retailers, we will lose the rest.
Resnick says the drop from 70% to 40% is the internet. If you look at Amazon and others that play a new role in how we shop and interact, it impacts businesses. What we also see is a number of locally owned businesses on State St, 80 – 85% are still locally owned, and just like everything else, we see areas of the city experiencing change. He doesn’t want retailers to leave, but thinks they can still have a great mix, he says when you look at the market demand of the new units being created, you will see local entrepenuers stepping up to address that demand. He thinks that you will see a State St. and Isthmus is changing and we need to look at the needs of the business owners.
Still agree with the Mayor, disagree with Scott, not sure extra points are needed here after the rebuttal.
Storefront signage is critical for creating signage for retail businesses and what is your position on the city’s role in regulating business signage and do you feel the current sign ordinance is effectively balancing the needs of the city and the business community?
Resnick: Says there are a lot of issues he runs into as a State St. alder, noise, crime, etc, but he hasn’t heard signage, and the reason being is that the mom and pops they are trying to support, who may not have the budget for online and tv advertising, but they can make a strong and creative sign. If you look at the regulations, he doesn’t see this as a top issue the city should be addressing, he sees it as a distraction. We have a Urban Design Commission that can take care of these matters and we have had too much attention focused on signs. That sign from teh 50s that we all love, he can’t imagine it being approved today. We need to support local retail and that means being creative with signage.
I’m going to disagree with Scott here and, much of the extra attention being wasted here was from the council as the reconsidered and reconsidered the billboard ordinance and lost votes instead of gained them. Minus one. I think his answer shows the lack of depth of his concern for social justice issues like the needs of the disabled. I’m sure he’s concerned, but lacks experience and someone needs to help him understand these issues. If I’m wrong and he understands the issues and is ignoring him, he should get minus 2. Again, it pains me, but I’m going to agree with what Soglin says next.
Soglin: He says there is a real different view of the matter. The question of signage is a question of public safety in some instances. The 1950s sign you are talking about is probably welcome, its new signage that is in violation of the law that is creating the challenge. That is why they are trying to rewrite the zoning code to accommodate some of the new needs and deal with a couple of aesthetics issues. He doesn’t think its unreasonable for a city that puts hundreds of thousands of dollars into facade restoration to preserve the historic nature of the building, to ask for compliance with the sign ordinance. The sign ordinance covers a number of things, signs across the top, in windows, along side the finished facade, the signs on the sidewalk. If it is an A frame sign in the right of way it can create an issue for people who are blind or in wheel chairs and parents with strollers, that is why that is regulated. There are some other options that they are trying to create, like blade signs, they are visible to the pedestrian, but is elevated and be more clearly seen than the illegal sign. They are also addressing needs to put menus in their windows, they are accommodating that. The third issue is more flexibility with materials. They are dealing with safety issues and responding to modern challenges they are facing.
Plus. one. 100% agreement. And I find it odd that Scott wants to say its ok for businesses to ignore laws and then not want to change the laws to fix the issues.
Score: Soglin +4, Resnick -3
Resnick rebuttal: He says its about the approach to the problem, he doesn’t disagree with the issues he brings up, but is it the business owners you are reaching out to first when you have an issue. Many times, people might think they have something approved and then are questioned later, most local business owners are not trying to skirt the law, they are trying to be good stewards and business owners and operate within the rules and regulations of the city. He says that they should look at who they should bring to the table on day one to make sure this isn’t a controversial issue to have the conversations before we have blow up fights. We could have had this conversation in a proactive way instead of first handing out tickets.
Minus one, just for being too cozy with business owners and their lobbyists over the needs of citizens and essentially trying to fix tickets for business owners. He’s essentially asking the mayor to direct staff not to do their jobs, they way to fix that is to fix the law, the one he doesn’t want to discuss.
Score: Soglin +4, Resnick -4.
Soglin rebuttal: He says they are working with the Chamber of Commerce and business organizations to develop the new ordinance. You might think its not necessary to deal with the issues, but when there are signs that create a safety hazard and disrespect the disabled community he thinks we have a rightful expectation of the owners of the properties to follow the law and they have a obligation to help us reform the ordinance instead of taking the law into their own hands.
No more points, but as a tactic, I’m all for not following the law when you think it is unjust, but then don’t whine about the ticket you get. Civil disobedience is a great thing, but you don’t get to have it both ways.
Road construction is disruptive to businesses, especially retail store owners, what can the city do to make road construction projects least disruptive to businesses.
Soglin: He says that some of the tactics they took in the last few years on Williamson and E. Johnson, indicates what they can do, along with some planning issues. He says that they can create signs on more heavily trafficked streets where the traffic is diverted to, directing them to the businesses. Publicity, press events, media give attention that the streets are open for business and that there are local people dependent on these businesses and it would be nice to make a concerted effort to shop there. The mayor’s role in both instances, he participated in walks the full length of the street, stopping in, shopping, and saying hello to the merchants and working with television for good visuals. He and Sarah made pledges to regularly shop on the streets. Another thing that is critical, it came up on Monroe St, is to make sure that you are not doing multiple constructions at the same time, which the council opposed. He says the state is doing reconstruction on the beltline and some council members wanted to do Monroe St. at the same time, which would compound the problem. The loss of that capacity would have been unacceptable.
Plus one. Especially on the Monroe St. issue.
Resnick: He says that the Monroe St. decision is about predictability, that is what means the most to businesses. he’s a local business owner and this is about preparedness and when something is going to happen, a 10 year event such as road construction, you put money in the bank, you hold off on investments, when you have businesses that are preparing for construction and then you say you are putting it off for anther year, he thought it wasn’t the right decision. He listened to the alder and went along with him. He says that is also about the contractor living up to his part of the deal, here is no flooding, people can get to the businesses. He says it is always difficult but businesses are able to persevere.
-1 on the Monroe St. I just went along with my buddy on the council comment. And the fact that traffic and citizens be damned, the businesses and their planning is more important. +1 on holding the contractors accountable, so this is a wash.
Score: Soglin +5, Resnick -4.
Soglin rebuttal: Stuff happens, if you want to be mayor you have to deal with it. When the state of Wisconsin decides to redo the beltline, and the council tampers with the construction schedule, someone has to take responsibility and make a rational decision and when you weigh everything, you tell me, was a decision by the council to move up Monroe St. to 2015 to be kept or were we to deal with the reality of what would happen on the west side with construction on the Beltline and Monroe St.
No additional points.
To most casual observers, the city’s TIF policy and what the means, is confusing, can you provide one example where TIF was used well and one where it was inappropriately applied.
Resnick: Used well at University Square where they made a $3M TIF investment that catalyzed $100M in new investments in the downtown, student housing and in the region. He knows the mayor’s answer on the TIF project that did not work well, the Edgewater, but TIF, you look at over 20 years, did we make the investments we needed to make and did we put the right energy into it. We look at TIF districts failing on the north side and there is more we can do. He treasures many of the value judgements we have made where we don’t have many failing TIF districts, that decisions were prudent by this mayor and other administrations. In the rebuttal he will talk about the Edgewater.
Holding off on points for now since he didn’t really finish.
Soglin: TIF in 2 minutes, its complicated. You have to look at the commitment of public sector, what is the risk, what is the return. And, beyond the TIF itself, what kind of additional investment will it spur. TIF 25, block 87, throw off $25M within a few years of the initial projects. Every TIF he has done as mayor has worked, the troublesome TIFs were done betting on the future without an anchor that would return the investment. Unfortunately they were put in place at the time the real estate recession started and those in office now have to deal with them. But you gotta make a judgement, you have to look at the report, and have to have the skill and wisdom and know that it is not worth more than $3.7M, that the but for test is followed. He didn’t think $16.7 was the right number, fortunately, there wasn’t an 11th vote to go with Scott’s and we saved $17M and still got the Edgewater.
Plus one. ON the generator issue, on the Edgewater and for understanding TIF like no one else. Don’t always agree with how he uses it, but he has done some innovative things.
Resnick: Says hindsight is 20/20. If we knew that Jerry and Peasant were going to make another major investment, we would have given $3.3 or $3.7. He made a decision to vote as a continuation motion. The mayor could have created a chilling effect by saying that every single cycle, your project could be canned. He felt, he stands by the decision with the information he had at the time. He says they need to learn where they go from here.
MINUS ONE! Jfc, he’s sticking with that decision? $17M mistake vs chilling effect? Very weak. Yuck.
Soglin says you didn’t need hindsight, the numbers were there, it doesn’t matter where the financing came from, all the developer needed was under $4M it was verified and it was in the reports before the vote.
Score: Soglin +6, Resnick – 5
Despite the city’s expressed desire for small business growth and development, entrepreneurs and businesses often indicate that there are significant barriers to creating and doing business here in the Madison area, what can you specifically propose to change the process and culture in city hall to make it more business friendly and more attractive to those prospective businesses?
Soglin: Significant barriers, how long are we going to put up with this? (PLUS ONE!!!!!) This city is growing like no other in the state of Wisconsin. I’m sorry, if you go to Duburque, Boise, San Franscisco, New York, there are going to be projects that will go through delays and sometimes they will be turned down, this city has had record success in the last 4 years and I don’t know why people keep beating up the city that can approve Ovation, the Hub, up to 5,000 housing units, mixed up projects and office buildings and in light of the changes, look what we did. Our city was slowed down and hampered by an application process that didn’t work, we fixed that. We turned around, and because preceding councils and administrations didn’t deal with the zoning code and downtown plan, it just sat there, we inherited it, we brought people together, disparate people concerned with businesses and historic preservation and we got through it, we got it adopted. We had a plan commission, landmarks commission and urban design commission that were out of step and feuding with each other, they still have disagreements today, we made substantial improvements, we listened to neighborhoods, businesses and developers and we did something. We are reviewing those changes to see what we missed, including signage, and they are going forward with further changes to improve the process, but he is getting a little tired of beating up on Madison when you look at all the investments, when 7-11 and CVS and projects from Chicago are coming here. They are already doing a Hub 2, and Hovde is doing the AT&T building. Lets look at the facts, we have changed, we are better for it and we will continue to improve.
Bahahahahahahaha. PLUS TWO!!! Not sure that is going to win him votes in that room – not sure how many people don’t already have their minds made up, but it needed to be said.
Resnick: The mayor mentions the Hub and the Hub 2, and if you want to talk about the issues on State St, the Hub is one of the decisions he may regret. If you take a look at what kind of projects are going in there, students can’t afford to live downtown, but now we have a developer that before the building is filled and at a shaky level of capacity, wants to build a Hub 2. We need to question a number of the decisions we are making right now. When it comes to the plans we created, we made it through the Downtown Plan, there are 182 recommendations where you could read the plan and it could say everything is approved and nothing new is approved. We have plans in zoning that still have conflicts with it. When it comes to culture in city hall and making sure that the person making the decision about if your business will open or close, what your bottom line is, it is ensuring that that person understands and can relate to the decision they are putting upon you. This is critical when you talk about the culture of city hall, it is why round tables are important, its why communication is important. We are seeing unprecedented development in Madison and we should thank Epic for much of that, but we need to look for opportunities to improve relationships and he looks forward to those conversations as mayor.
Did he answer the question? What would he do? Listen? Meh. No plus or minus points, but that was really a noncommittal politiciany answer.
Soglin rebuttal – he is asked to focus on small businesses: He says that Madison had a 1.25 vacancy rate, close to the lowest in the country, in World War 2 when GIs returned, we have learned that the way to solve the housing problem is to add to the housing stock, just because you add something that is beyond your price point, as long as we get to a balanced vacancy rate, it helps everyone, the entire market place, it helps students and those interested in affordable housing. WE are also on track with a $25M commitment over the next 4 – 5 years to build 1000 units of affordable housing. He says “lets go back to the Hub” – audience member Darcy Haber says no, this is about small businesses and GWABA. The mayor says there was an option to create one giant space where one national retailer could come in or dividing it into smaller spaces which would then be more competitive for small businesses, that is the work they did in cooperation with the developer for the site.
Resnick rebuttal – He says when it comes small businesses in city hall we need to make sure the process is streamlined, make sure there is snow removal or other issues and we respond in and effective and efficient matter with things like parking where only the City of Madison can jump in. He deals with Gilman St. where his business is, where there is limited parking and sometimes they need parking enforcement, its being reactive and communicating regularly and making sure small businesses have a place in city hall and are listened to.
Score: Soglin +8, Resnick -5
Closing Remarks
Resnick: Madison is a great place with a number of opportunities. You can see how wonderful it is, you see the new businesses and this is an investment in the community. He is excited to be a part of this, to come with a fresh perspective and to listen. He doesn’t have all the answers, no one person can. For the same reason his colleagues voted him into leadership, he has been working on the big issues, when it comes to listening, bringing people together and work towards a decision. He may not agree with everyone, he may make controversial decisions, but at the end of the day people will know they were listened to, he made a thoughtful decision and he decided to move forward. That is leadership in his opinion. He encourages them to vote on April 7th.
Soglin: 4 years ago Madison was isolated in terms of the economy and equity throughout the United States, they have taken steps to change, but he wants to make the point, to make these things happen, there has to be an ability to bring together the divergent interests in the community and hey, when you are working with the 2nd and 6th aldermanic districts, the level of activism interjects a tremendous amount of disparate attitudes and feelings about the future and it is the responsibility of the city staff and elected officials to take that and turn it into concrete results, whether it is central park or cap east, or the challenges on the northeast and south side, it takes a leader who can make things happen and for the better and who is willing to turn this into the number one city, not just for entrepenuers, or middle class families, not just for the people who are the insiders, but to make it that city for everyone.
And the win goes to Soglin. Clear win goes to Soglin. Makes me squirm a little, but there is no denying it. Happy to hear if others have an opinion that is different, but unless you’re a chearleader for entrepenuers, young professionals and the Edgewater Hotel . . . if you can’t see beyond that to the entire City of Madison, and not get stuck in the alders insiders club . . . I don’t know how you could come to any other conclusion.
It is, what it is. 🙂
