Moderated by the League of Women Voters, sponsored by Homeless Services Consortium, its a quick 45 minutes. I made comments on their responses, fill in answers when they didn’t know the answers and noted when they were flat out wrong. Here’s all the forums in one post with links to comments and videos.
Jumping right in!
There is no place to sleep if you are out of days at the shelter which range from 30 to 90 days (a year) depending upon what shelter you are in, where do you suggest we sleep at night if we can’t get in?
Mayor Soglin says the City of Madison has had a housing shortage for well over the past decade, in fact if you look at the data from 3 years ago, the city had the lowest vacancy rate in the United States. That vacancy rate was less than 1.5%. That vacancy rate impacts all of Madison regardless of income or housing need, it impacts single individuals, families, people with low incomes, people with middle income, The responsibility for homelessness in Madison is not fairly divided, for a variety of reasons the city of Madison has, he is not here to sugar coat this, for a variety of reasons the City of Madison has limited resources, and does not have the ability to provide shelter who is homeless, its the reality we have to contend with, the nonprofit sector, the faith based community is going to have to make up the difference until the next 5 years go by when we will get added at least 1000 affordable units and that will go a long way regardless of the gap. We will see significant change in the next year if the Rethke project is available.
Resnick says this is one of the most difficult challenges we face as the city itself. When you look out and walk into city hall itself and you talk to the individuals sleeping right outside, particularly those who have run out of shelter days, those who do not feel comfortable in our own shelter system, it becomes incredibly difficult. You have to leverage those in the community that are trying to do so much more than to provide resources, whether it is from our faith based community or the nonprofit community, what he would say tho is that it will be a difficult path ahead to follow housing first but to make sure that the next 5 years those individuals who are trying to decide between sleeping in a vehicle or trying to decide to sleep outside, that they can find a place where they can legally feel safe, that they can find comfort and surrounded by a support network to make sure they are ok. Homelessness in so many ways, the human element seems to get forgotten in so many of these conversations, that are are compassionate people, that everyone is supposed to be treated with dignity and everyone is eventually supposed to have a shelter over their heads.
BK Comments: Neither one of the answered the question.
You have both been in office for the past 4 years, what is being done to get folks that are sleeping on benches in front of the city-county building and in and around the capitol square area into housing, are they ever going to find homes/places for those people?
Resnick says while in office there have been a couple different roads, particularly regarding people who are sleeping right outside the city county building. He thinks right now it is a reflection of the community, its disgraceful, he not only embarrassed but he knows many others in the city, that we can’t provide better services and this is what it has come down to. In his time on the City-County Liaison Committee they have had to go figure out what to do and he felt that putting up no trespassing signs was not the answer until we had a long term approach where individual can go, first it is dealing with the individual belongings, making sure there is a safe place to lock up and secure belongings and storage facilities, making sure that laundry services and shower services are available. What we do need to be looking at is a long term approach but moving homelessness around or moving an individual to State St. or to a park or another location is no better unless we can deal with the underlying issues at home.
Mayor Soglin says that no one who has served as the mayor has built more affordable housing than he has, whether is it the Karabis apartments on the triangle for those with physical disabilities or funding UDAG grants in 1979 that led to the Capital Center building on Dayton St., then they got into the mid-1980s they had the capacity to house all the homeless in our community, temporary or permanent. The financial means of handling housing today is very different, the federal government has pulled out of so many of the programs and now what we are left with is one federal program which is the administration of tax credits. Which we can also combine with extending the life of the TIF district for a year, right now we have the project on Rethke that is going to be under construction next month, that is targeted to the chronically homeless, the folks who are living on the steps of the city county building, that project should be done in another year and a couple months. The second project of that sort is for families and singles and that is by Glenview School on the Northside, the staff is working on a third site on the westside and they are having some trouble with some of the neighboring property owners but the alder of the district is supportive and I think that will be successful.
BK Comment: Resnick didn’t answer. Soglin says Rethke, but honestly, I don’t think Rethke is large enough to house all the people sleeping in front of the City-County Building these days. It’ll likely be 5 years before we have enough housing. Rethke won’t be ready for a year and half yet. That’s a long time to be sleeping outside. I’m surprised neither one said that we have social workers, homeless outreach workers and even the police working with people. I guess they didn’t say it because . . . there aren’t enough outreach workers and they need more resources to be effective.
There is no legal place to put up a tent in the City of Madison, why can’t we be allowed to keep warmer and be protected from wind, rain and snow, would you work to allow tents in the City of Madison is there is not enough shelter?
Soglin says the regulation of tents and camping is not regulated by the City of Madison, it is under the State of Wisconsin and they regulate it on a number of bases. Which is safety and health and if there was a proposal before the state that our Health Department could support he would.
Resnick concurs with the Mayor, we’re having a conversation that someone should be forced in the position to sleep outside in a tent as the main mode of housing we are in a very disgraceful part of the city. We can do so much better than tent housing, but again it does go back to the state and it is a regulation monitored by the state and not the city.
BK Comment: Soglin is half wrong. Yes, the state regulates campground. However, the city provides the zoning for them and there is no zoning that allows campgrounds. Technically a church or nonprofit could host 3 tents (or tiny houses) if they wanted to but they also have to fit in a very narrow definition of zoning and we haven’t found a property that fits the zoning yet. We CAN do better than tent housing, but if we have a year and a half left to go before we have housing, then why can’t people have a little extra protection when sleeping outside the days they can’t get into shelter.
Hypothermia can set in at 45 degrees, water freezes at 32 degrees, but us human beings can’t get in to shelter until it reaches 20 degrees if we are out of days at the shelter, where did this policy come from and will you work to improve it.
Resnick says he cannot say where the policy came from but what he will tell you, he does winter camping and he has been out there for a single day and he doesn’t understand how a body can survive in some of what people have persevered through out here in a Madison winter. It still . . . he can’t believe it. It is still figuring out how to work, particularly at 40 degrees but even at 32 degrees to make improvements, he’s sure it comes down to costs, but he cannot tell you the exact origin of the policy.
Soglin says the regulation on days is not regulated by the city, it is regulated by those who operate the shelters, his understanding is that at a certain point which is in the question, when the temperature drops to that point, then regardless of days previously used, the shelter is open to everyone. He just wants to make the point that should be clear as they answer all these questions, that our objective is that every single family will have permanent housing, that is the objective, so that we should reach a point so there is no need and no reason for anyone not to be in permanent housing.
BK Comments: I’m glad the candidates say they don’t know when they don’t know. Soglin knows some issues better than Resnick. This is one of them. The nonprofits decide these rules BUT, the city and county fund them and they could change that. As nonprofits, we are told what we have to do to get the money all the time, here is an area the city and county could flex their muscles if they wanted to. Also, the mayor is wrong that “everyone” can get in after the 20 degrees mark, because if you are banned you still can’t get in. I thought this was resolved, but it doesn’t appear to be.
Much of the housing at agencies is for people who are mentally ill or who have alcohol or drug problems or who have kids, what programs are there for the rest of us?
Soglin says he is not sure he understands the question. It seems to him that the focus needs to be providing housing, permanent housing for every single family and individual. that is the standard. There are some folks who have substance abuse challenges and who have mental illness challenges,for those individuals, part of the housing that should be noted as part of the model at Rethke, is that services will be provided, a whole host of services, related not just to substance abuse of issues of challenges with mental illness, but also any other kinds of resources that are needed. Keep in mind that we we modeled this after either Parcel G or Parcel J in San Fransisco, it is the name of the site, it was when he discovered that site, that project, which was, by the way, was privately funded that they went to work on the Rethke project. If you look at the San Fransisco project, they not only have the housing, but a complete array of services including access to computers, cooking and laundry facilities you would expect in a home and a great location for transportation.
Resnick says when we look at a community that are now 50% renters in a city and when you think about definitions of affordable housing of paying 30% of your rent is going to figure out your housing, it is very difficult, there are individuals who simply cannot sign a lease even in places that they may be able to afford, whether it is for a security deposit that can’t be met, whether it is because of criminal record or other personal issues with the location, and there is people who are denied housing. You also run into issues particularly in Madison, and it is something both the Mayor and I fought against, but many of the state laws are rewritten that penalize Whether it is a medical emergency or loss of a job, if one thing changes in their lives, they can still see housing in place. So when it comes to the long term pieces for those who don’t have mental illness or might not fall into city services, its figuring out how to keep people in housing.
BK Comments: Neither answered. Many of the housing programs are targeted towards people with mental illness (Housing Initiatives, Tellurian, Safe Haven) or drug and alcohol issues (Tellurian, some Porchlight) or families (Road Home, YWCA or Seton and Elizabeth House) – examples here for men. If you don’t have income, a mental health diagnosis or are in treatment for AODA issues or are sober, your options are seriously limited. Housing First, which both candidates talk about, runs counter to a lot of our current programs. So it will be interesting to see how that turns out. Also, I remember Bridget and the mayor’s office up at the capital fighting the tenant law changes, but I don’t remember Resnick. I might not be remembering something, but I don’t really recall him “fighting” against the changes. Which, has nothing to do with the question that he didn’t answer.
If buses are running and don’t have people on them, why can’t homeless people ride the buses for free so we can get to appointments, apply for jobs and housing.
Resnick says we should continue to be looking for more ways to subsidize Metro transportation in the city of Madison, this become a cost element to the city council but we should be looking for different alternatives with resources that are available.
Soglin says that there is presently a number of programs that provide free bus ridership, not for homeless people, but based on income. And, what we were trying to do was find the resources to expand those programs so that we can provide greater services. He wants to point out, that keeping Madison Metro going is a greater and greater challenge every year, the reason is that the federal government is not providing the kinds of subsidies that it once did in terms of day to day operations and to acquire buses and maintain them. That includes bus garages, the state is going the same backwards direction. And the irony of it is that both the state and federal government save money the more people use public transportation whether it is a bus in the city of Madison or rail like you have in every place from New York to Los Angeles the key to all of this is understanding that the city of Madison cannot do it alone, we have limited capacity and limited resources and the state controls our revenues, the control all revenues in regards to taxes where we do have the ability to collect taxes they control how much we can collect and to a certain degree how we have to spend it. This movement to create greater access to housing, greater access to transportation has got to be taken to higher levels. That’s the whole concept of the federal government, its a recognition of collecting the money at one point where more money can be collected, redistributing fairly.
BK Comments: Resnick doesn’t answer in any meaningful way. Soglin believes there are programs out there, but doesn’t understand why they don’t work. The $80,000 in Jobs for Transit the bus tickets can only be used if you are looking for housing or jobs, so getting to showers or medical appointments don’t qualify. The other program is the half price bus tickets but you have to have $27.50 and get there before they run out. If you have no income, and only get food stamps, then you can’t pay for these tickets. There is also a problem that there are only 300 at the first of the month and 150 on the 15th. I believe those are the TWO programs, not “a number of” programs that exist out there. Neither answer the question, why can’t homeless people ride empty or near empty buses for free, it doesn’t cost anything?
Can either of you explain why when you speak of of homeless day centers you never mention Bethel Homeless Support Services, they have served this community for the past 8 years and aside from being open 5 days a week instead of 7 and although not having showers and laundry, its a very comprehensive service resource for its community
Soglin says Bethel has come up in he discussions we have had along with the YWCA, Porchlight and a number of other facilities.
Resnick says we should continue to promote the good work that is being done at Bethel, what ends up happening is when you have that recognition from the City and other partners, it helps those that are looking to fundraise and to donate to the community and for volunteers who put in the long hours and services to help those in the community where the city can do more to promote what is going on at Bethel.
BK Comment: No comments here.
I understand Madison is in the process of installing more bathrooms and bathroom signage for visitor to the city, has or will the transgendered population be consulted for their input, I believe the city has responsibility for property accommodating everyone in all facilities to the public.
That is a phenomenal question. Um . . . although several of his colleagues who sit on the committee that is designed to figure out where the portapotty or where the permanent restroom will go in Madison, he is not sure if the transgender community has been communicated with on this issue and whoever wrote the question, possibly the mayor has the answer there, but if not, I’ll make sure someone gets back to you on it.
Soglin says that his understanding is that the staff working with the committee has indicated that this issue is being addressed.
BK Comment: I do think this was talked about.
Will you support repeal of the special section of the municipal ordinance regarding trespassing that outlaws the possession of all sleeping paraphernalia while sleeping on the property of another which is defined to make ? public property
Soglin isn’t sure he understands the question, but he heard reference to private property in there and very simply this, someone who owns their own property has every right to control what happens on there. And that’s not something we can control.
Ed Kuharski says you can repeal the ordinance.
Mayor looks confused. I offer that there are additional charges if you are caught with a sleeping bag or bedroll on private property so there is an additional charge they can do.
Soglin says that he doesn’t know why there would be additional provisions that you describe, so he’d want to check into that.
Resnick says he has the same answer as the mayor, to just look into it, and particularly if the municipal court has issued citations on the possession of a sleeping bag. He would be absolutely opposed to it but he doesn’t know the ordinance.
Kuharski says he will talk to them later.
BK Comments: Here is the ordinance MGO 23.07(7) entitled “Unlawful Trespass”
(b) No person shall possess or use items commonly associated with sleeping or habitation, including but not exclusively, beds, mattresses, sleeping bags, bedrolls, blankets, pillows, sheets, quilts and comforters on the property of another without the permission of a person lawfully upon the premises.”This is in addition to the trespassing laws in place. Also, many people remarked about how I wasn’t allowed to have the “right to control” what happened on my porch. And, this was used as a threat against people sleeping under the Monona Terrace and visiting Kelley’s Market on W. Washington
Please share your short list of specific properties that you have identified as candidates for siting the homeless services center
Resnick says that as they are looking for site, there are areas where they can do a potential swap with an existing organization or building who might be interested in moving outside of the downtown or the Isthmus, the one issue is that the second you start mentioning the exact sites then the price of that site goes up and it takes away the city ability to negotiate, so he would say there are sites inside the isthmus that would make for great candidates for emergency men’s shelter, but at this point he would say that there are several sites he does have in mind.
Mayor asks if they are talking about a shelter or service center. Audience says day center. Mayor says that he is fine with the additional site the county selected on Lien Rd and he is fine with the one they are working on off Fish Hatchery.
BK Comment: Sorry, but I don’t believe they are truly looking at sites in earnest. And the one I thought they wre looking at is owned by the city, so there are no issues of it impacting the price. Disappointed the mayor thinks that locations that far from downtwon are ok.
What services are being included in affordable housing, mental health, supervision for safety, medical, drug and alcohol?
Mayor says the short answer to that question is yes. The long answer is lets go back to the Rethke project, because that is our base model so what we are hoping to do there is provide counseling, regarding mental health, substance abuse, employment, personal issues and also specific services for veterans. He wants to use this as an opportunity to say there is one special group that we have to work with, those are veterans who receive less than honorable discharge and for various reasons do not qualify for veterans benefits but there are processes where they can appeal, its lengthy, difficult and challenging, for a veteran who was discharged with less than honorable parting with the military to get reinstated and that is another of the services they look to provide on top of the conventional ones.
Resnick says that what he would add to that is the services need to be in a central location, as transportation becomes more and more difficult not only the cost of transportation, but simply the time out of the day it can take for transportation is ensuring that services are if not all under one roof in very close proximity so any form of housing is going to need to address the issues of personal safety, of mental health, of therapy, of substance abuse and job training, all of these services are critical in a pathway forward but what it needs to be is centrally located and ensure that people are not spending 2, 3 4 hours of the day walking or trying to raise money for bus fare to receive these services throughout the entire city.
BK Comment: No comment
When is more housing for women going to be built so women and children are not turned away when the Salvation Army facilities are full.
Resnick says it is another great question and as we plan for the Salvation Army facility both is the services it currently provides and the services the city provides, that before it closes down that we have a back up plan in place, what we can’t lose is those services if for one day or one week and making sure that the transition is as painless as possible. It does come back to the point of trying to bring housing first to ensure whether it is a woman and family, that everyone does have housing and a roof over their had but there will be immediate needs as we talk about what that site will become.
Soglin says the Salvation Army has two facilities on E. Washington, one is the downtown facility 5 blocks from the square and the other one is Darbo/Rethke neighborhood. Salvation Army came to us some time ago, and said that they wanted to consolidate all of their services at Darbo Worthington and we said no, that it is better that you consolidate downtown if you are going to consolidate, so they have been working with them, first the city would require the facility at Darbo Worthington and they could take the proceeds from that sale, plus their existing resources and create a better facility in the downtown area, they are presently working with them on a possibility for a site, but at this juncture the decision making is in their hands and we are waiting to hear their response. They just met with the Salvation Army in the last two weeks, its probably the 5th or 6th meeting they have had with them and we are also meeting with others looking at a variety of sites downtown to get the best location and largest facility
BK Comment: Did they answer the question?
You may each take a 2 minute break from questions, would you like to rebut anything
They both pass
You both support ending Veteran homelessness by the end of 2015 and chronic homelessness by 2016 what is the plan to make this happen.
Soglin says the first of all they had a series of meetings with the DA and county officials in regards to special work in regards to severance. They have put in a special request for VASH vouchers, those are section 8 vouchers that increases your allocation for veterans and we have been awarded them. They are working with private landlords in trying to accommodate veterans and in addition the Rethke project will be open in a year, or year and a half. The key to this, especially with veterans, is having a good working relationship with the veterans association who are those folks in Madison and Rockford that provide the direction for services for veterans. Despite the criticism that the VA has done with health care around the United States, he Veterans Administration on housing has been a great working relationship and is confident that they are doing a good job in the objective of making sure Veterans get housed. One of the big challenges that we have learned from other cities is that there are some Veterans that do not want to be in permanent housing and its going to take counseling, persistent work with them with qualified social workers, and let me point out that Dane County does not have enough social workers to solve this problem.
Resnick says that he would add that taking our agencies that are on the ground that are doing so much of the good work in the community and see how we can explore other ways to explore leveraging their work so we are all working towards the end common goal. In addition to that is reaching out in areas that we do not like to the folks over at Outreach to make sure their plans are inclusive, and make sure that for residents actually using our services that we are listening diligently to the feedback on the plans that are coming forward. That we are taking that input and seriously making changes to our existing program, he does believe that they will get to these end goals, it will take collaboration but he does know that the mayor and I see this as a high priority for our administrations.
BK Comment: If they were taking this seriously and it was anything more than a soundbite, they would have had better answers. I don’t believe there is a serious plan in place beyond Rethke, which won’t be done by the end of 2015 and barely in 2016.
Rumor is that Feeding the State St. Family that feeds homeless people on Saturday at 3:00 will be asked to leave the Philosophers Stone area, is that true and do you support it.
Resnick can’t say if it is true or not, but what he will say is that when it comes to the services needed so that we do provide that safety net in the community, whether it is food or dollars or bus passes we need to ensure that we have provided something so that people can have food, that they do maintain access in our community but he cannot speak to the Philosopher Stones location.
Mayor says that site is under review for changes in the site right now, and while he is aware of some of the suggestions to open up the space he is not aware that that issue has come up and he will look into it when he gets back, but he wants to point out, particularly regarding that space, that we can’t ignore this, it is also one of the problems that plagued Occupy Madison, that substance abuse and drug trafficking have been a problem and that one of the things that happen is that there are predators that take advantage of homeless people and others in that regard and that is something that has become a major concern in that particular location. It is very well docuemented and it is something that we have to deal with as traffic in the area picks up this spring, but he knows of no plans to relocate the meal program, but he will look into it.
BK Comments: The mayor should talk to the police chief who has been saying they should move to Central Park for a year now.
I have been forced to be around homeless men at the shelter who have sicknesses, some have lice and scabies and others have mental health issues, is there a plan to have a place for homeless to go with special needs?
Soglin says the city-county health department should be notified and he is kinda shocked that they haven’t been if that is the case, so he wants to ask that if anyone is aware of any individuals that have communicable diseases or illnesses that they notify the operators of the shelter and if that doesn’t produce results go directly to the city-county health department.
Resnick agrees and that you need to feel like your voice is being heard when you are making those complaints, because so often those who are the most vulnerable in the community try to speak their mind to public officials and feel like they are not being heard or listened to, and we are not seeing the results that we are looking for in this community in an area where we can improve upon and get better, but when it comes to issues of public health concerns please do reach out to out public health department.
BK Comment: Sadly the mayor is wrong here. I tried getting public health to help with lice and other issues when we had this issue. Short answer is they say “not it!”. They are moving away from helping individuals, they are more policy oriented.
How can city and county resources use to police and jail people without housing be redirected so that people’s actual needs can be met, including providing them with supportive housing.
Resnick says homelessness should not be a crime. And when we look at someone who is penalized because they cannot find a roof over their head or they can’t get in to shelter and have no where else to sleep or are sitting in a very desperate and vulnerable situation, the result of it shouldn’t be that someone receives a citation or decides it easier to spend a night in jail and the simple issues of paying that ticket. He does know that the city has been focused on municipal programs to make sure homeless individuals are not repeat offenders in paying those tickets, he is confident that many of the programs are working and going in the right direction but it does go into homelessness should not be a crime in our community.
Soglin says the City of Madison cannot solve these problems alone. They are estimating that at least a quarter to maybe a third of the cost of operating the Madison Police Department and the Madison Fire Department are incidents that involve substance abuse and mental illness and those are not limited to the homeless population, not everyone who is homeless has these problems and not everyone who has these problems are homeless. It is costing us them 10s of millions of dollars, there are obviously examples, there is the example of individual who may have overdosed who was served to much alcohol that was transported to a detox facility, a detox facility that has been reduced in service in the last year. There might be someone with mental illness that has to be transported, there are other things that are not as obvious, a series of household fires that have occurred in the last year which were set unintentionally and inattentively by people under the influence, there is the challenge of preventing this before it happens, before it leads to injury or death. They had a homicide on the square two years ago where one homeless individual died at the hands of another homeless individual, we had a similar incident twice in the last several years, one involving someone who was homeless and one who was not, drowning. We had an incident three years ago, not during the winter, but during the summer, of someone dying of dehydration. His time is up.
BK comments: I don’t think they answered the question. Could housing or case management money be taken from savings in the police and fire department?
Closing Statement
Soglin says to finish what I was saying, the key here is understanding that the problem is universal, they can document it, one of the tragic ones is the young man who was troubled in Black River Falls and the local police department but him on a bus and said there are people in Madison that can help you better than we can. And so they arrived in downtown Madison and we caught up with him two days later after he had set his third fire, two downtown and one at a home where he managed to work out by LaFollette High School. The point is this, we need help, we need therapy, we need help with the frustration and dilemmas of not having sufficient income and a place to stay. He constantly said, there are 5 areas we need to be comprehensive, they are housing, and housing is first, transportation, quality child care, because there are children involved, health care and health care is mental health and it includes nutrition, and finally education and job training. There has to be a comprehensive strategy adopted, and the beauty of what was one a viable federal government is that money was collected under progressive taxation from all over the country and then redistributed to where there was the greatest need so that even tho the folks in Black River Falls or the young man who’s family through him out of the house in the Town of Oregon last summer and he ended up in downtown Madison last year, we’d be sharing the cost of responsibility. That is where we need to take this discussion. Through the conference of Mayors he is on a task force working on these issues, frankly he is not optimistic, about how soon we will get a response from the congress that is positive, but the same discussion has to be taken to the state legislature and it has to be taken to county government. The reasons we focus on the City of Madison is because we are the most open and accessible. And that is good. But the responsibility is for all.
Resnick says on these issues what we need to look at is over the course of the last 4 years is are we doing enough and have we made enough progress, if we look back on what homelessness was 4 years ago and the numbers, have we taken the steps in the right direction. In a number of areas we have made progress. In other areas we can be leading at the local level, to make sure we are working along side our partners at the county, at the county board, to ensure that we are all on the same page for what the strategy moving forward needs to be. There have been a number of efforts and he applauds many efforts that have occurred within the sit to sit down and make sure that we are moving here, but when we see fights about what is occurring in front of city hall, when we see the arguments about where someone would store their personal belongings or how many additional years we need to wait for these problems to be addressed, he does believe the city can do more. This is actually the last debate or forum between the mayor and him, closing out the 9 month to a year campaign and he would encourage you to go out and vote on April 7th, he wants to thank the mayor for being polite during this entire endeavor (giggles) and so many of you that followed up in this journey. Thank you so much.
BK Comment: As terrible as Soglin is sometimes on homelessness, at least he is knowledgable at a deeper level (but still needs a lot of education) and is actually doing something (Rethke!) Lots of work still to be done with him if/when he wins.
