Fed Up With Pham-Remmele

No mercy here. Except maybe from Shiva Bidar-Sielaff.

WHAT IS THE ISSUE?
At the Common Council Organizational Committee had an interesting discussion over approving their minutes. It all started in a response to the council staff sending out the minutes from the meeting, to which Alder Thuy Pham-Remmele responded:

From: Pham-Remmele, Thuy
Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 3:35 PM
To: Veldran, Lisa; Clear, Mark; Bidar-Sielaff, Shiva; Schmidt, Chris; Eagon, Bryon; Rummel, Marsha
Cc: Cieslewicz, Dave; Piraino, Janet; May, Michael; Wirtz, Brad; Bruer, Tim; Schumacher, Michael; Skidmore, Paul
Subject: RE: CCOC Agenda: 10/5/10 and Draft Minutes: 9/7/10

To President Clear & Council Leadership, and Council Aministrative Assistant Veldran:

It was with dismay that I reviewed the Draft Minutes of Council Leadership meeting on 9/7/10 to find many inaccuracies in recording.

I trust the Draft Minute’s unfortunate inaccuracies were due to time constrained by addional duties, NOT by malice or bias.

To ensure accuracy, this is my official request for the cassette recording of CCOC 9/7/10 entire meeting.
I will come to Council Office to pick it up on Monday morning, October 4th.
I plan to submit a list of corrections for the Draft minute prior to next Tuesday, October 5th CCOC meeting.

Otherwise, I will have no other choice but to file an official complaint for this issue to be placed under public scrutiny.

My schedule already requires extra time for the Annual Fall Foodcart Review both this week & weekend.
Now this CCOC minute demands my immediate attention, I regret not being able to tour the Overture as planned.

Respectfully,
Alder Thuy

OK, SO WHAT IS THE PROBLEM
Ok, and they anxiously awaited the fruit of her hours of commitment to set the record straight. Fast forward.

As Council President Mark Clear asks for approval of the minutes at the CCOC meeting, he says he’d like to make an editorial comment. He informs the group that Alder Pham-Remmele has concerns about the way the minutes were presented, but he has not specifics. She called a few minutes ago to let him know that she can’t attend, she has another meeting, and she won’t be able to voice her concerns. He offered to refer to the next meeting. He says this is highly unusual, but this is a highly unusual situation.

DISCUSSION
Someone moved for referral and it was seconded but then . . . . the following discussion ensued.

Michael Schumacher says he wishes she was here.

Tim Bruer agrees.

Shiva Bidar-Sielaff says they all do.

Schumacher says that he is always interested in what people like to say. He doesn’t agree with referral, she is not part of the body, she can make a written comment, but he does not support referral. He says that Clear has not gotten, and she has not shared a compelling reason about reason about them not being factual.

Clear says he listened tot he audio and reviewed the written minutes and there are no discrepancies, but she didn’t share specific concerns, he is disappointed and unhappy about that.

I missed what Schumacher said in response.

Schumacher moved a substitute, but then said he didn’t want to be the one to make the motion since he wasn’t at the last meeting. He said that would not be the best thing to do.

Marsha Rummel, who came in late, said she would make the motion.

Schumacher seconded.

Rummel says that this is a big agenda, she says if Pham-Remmele were here she wouldn’t make the motion, she has the opportunity and if not here to raise objections, this is the time to do it, we can always revisit if she brings info.

Clear explains to Rummel that she called, she is at the Vending Oversight committee. Clear then points out another Vending Committee members, Rosemary Lee is at the CCOC meeting.

Schumacher says they have been presented no reason or specifics.

Rummel says stands by motion.

Bidar-Sielaff is the only one to vote no.

MY NOTES FROM THAT LAST MEETING
They aren’t that good, wasn’t planning on blogging it and giving her any attention on this issue . . . and quite frankly, didn’t want to further embarrass her because she actually has some good points, and some of the alders were a little rude . . . plus . . . it was kind of whacky and I couldn’t follow a bunch of it. But it was strange, and maybe I should try to put together what I have? The notes below look pretty accurate to me . . . but I didn’t review them that closely, and it was a while ago. If anything, they make the situation look less crazy than it was. They are worth reading.

MINUTES FROM THAT LAST MEETING
And here are the minutes.

Registration:
Rosemary Lee, 111 W. Wilson Street, #108, Madison – Spoke

Rosemary Lee stated that she sees no issue with the city’s appointment process, that there is plentiful information on how to apply, duties of committee members and the various forms that are needed to be completed. She thought the process was fair, worked well and did not see what all the fuss was about.

Ald. Thuy Pham-Remmele thanked Ms. Lee for her comments but she stated that even the Mayor complained the process was broken and now this process has become an accepted practice. She stated that Ald. Tim Bruer up at the new alder orientation told the rookies that they needed to understand all the “nooks and crannies” of politics and that he was make sure no one got short-changed or bullied because it was reputed that it was “sandbox” and if you didn’t “play the game” there were no “toys’ for you. He stated that he
wanted to protect the rookies. He then introduced himself to her and assured her that she would get a chance to say what she wanted to say and he would not let the Mayor ignore her. He also assured her that if she wanted to vote a certain way Council leadership would protect her. She noted that this was her
first lesson.

Ald. Pham-Remmele stated that she had reviewed the Mayor’s memo dated September 1, 2010 and the chart listing city appointments by district and wanted to review it with CCOC members.

Ald. Pham-Remmele noted that it was the city’s goal to have diversity on committees but she asked equal to what. She asked if it was the group that was important or was the knowledge, the skill, the interest more important or was it important to have a woman or racial representation on committees. She stated she should qualify for committee appointments because she was a woman, was non-white, was concerned about safety issues in her district, was very educated and that she had experience as a MMSD employee and a parent in the school district. When she was elected she should have been selected to serve on committees aligned with those qualifications but she was removed from CDBG Commission and now was on the Vending Oversight Committee.

She stated that some people see the appointment process working and some see it as a sandbox with bullies. Ald. Michael Schumacher told her that she didn’t know how many asses she would have to kiss to be assigned on twelve commissions and she was not going to kiss asses. Ald. Eagon asked her not to put words in people’s mouths that weren’t present. Ald. Pham-Remmele stated that she stood behind what she had stated. She provided another example of bullies in the sandbox. At a Board of Estimates meeting Ald. Paul
Skidmore was sitting on the floor even though there was an empty chair next to her. He told her that he had requested the Mayor to put him on the Board of Estimates and he did not, so he sat on the floor in protest. She stated that this was pathetic. She would not sit on the floor because she trusts the process and they have the power to change the process. Ald. Pham-Remmele asked where the research was on how other municipalities appoint people to their committees. Ald. Shiva Bidar-Sielaff asked Ald. Pham-Remmele if she had
done any research herself. Ald. Pham-Remmele stated that she had not and that Council staff was going to research the question.

Ald. Marsha Rummel asked about her abstaining on committee appointments and what she needed to have in advance so that she no longer abstained regularly on committee appointments. Ald. Rummel asked if having more information about committee appointments before the Council meeting would be helpful.

Ald. Pham-Remmele stated that she had a list of what could be fixed. She noted that there was a number of overlapping appointments, that some individuals are appointed to several committees. Her reason for abstaining is that the appointment process was not representative of the larger Madison community and that there were a small group of “hanger-ons” who get the chance to “call the shots”. She noted that this turns off the larger community members who are not experts on city hall.

Ald. Rummel asked if she distributed the vacancy report from the Mayor’s office to her constituents. Ald. Pham-Remmele stated that she did (along with the application forms) distribute them at community associations but people apply and do not hear back from the Mayor’s Office. She asked Joel Plant what
happened to an applicant’s application if they do not get selected. He stated that they stay in the pool of applicants. She would like the Mayor’s office to annually provide the Council a list of applicants who do not get selected to serve on committees.

Ald. Pham-Remmele stated that a person she knew had applied for a committee appointment and was not appointed until he donated money to the Mayor’s campaign (or whatever) and there was a person on CDBG Commission who was appointed due to his race and did not attend meetings and another woman who was appointed due to her minority status and who was not kicked off the committee.

Ald. Clear asked if the Mayor’s staff knew what the percentage was of applicants who are appointed. Rachel Strauch-Nelson stated that it was difficult to get at the information. The difficulty was with the database because once a person was appointed they are no longer recognized as a candidate. Janet Piraino stated that every month they go through the list of applicants. For example, for a particular seat there may be 12-15 applicants. She also noted that there are significant numbers of people who express interest in a
committee and who are not appointed. Ald. Clear asked if that was true for all committees. Ms. Piraino stated that it was rare to not have an interested applicant for a committee seat.

Ald. Rummel stated that she serves on a committee that has some amount of turnover and that she would like to see more alder input on appointments. She would like to have some input into the decision process and would like to see more tact from the Mayor’s Office when contacting people who are not reappointed.

Ald. Bidar-Sielaff stated that alders who sit on a specific committee could be helpful by providing feedback to the Mayor on the citizen candidates. She liked the suggestion that having an annual list of applicants who were not chosen by aldermanic district and a listing of how many people were appointed and to what. It would give the Council members a sense of who was in the wings and/or who showed interest in being appointed to a committee.

Ald. Pham-Remmele would like to have the names of District 20 committee members, their terms and their contact information. She would like to list this information on her website so the public can access committee members. She would also like to see a brief explanation for each committee appointees on the
appointment report: name, address, district and why they committed themselves to serve on the committee. Ms. Strauch-Nelson thought they could start attaching the application to the appointment report. Ald. Pham-Remmele thought this was a good idea.

Ald. Pham-Remmele was concerned about people being continually reappointed. She would like to see their attendance record and years of service. She wanted to know why the person was being reappointed. Ald.
Clear noted that the attendance records are available but the reason as to why would be subjective and didn’t know how you would get at the information.

Ald. Pham-Remmele asked if there was a limit on how many committees a person could serve on. Ald. Clear stated that there is nothing in the ordinances on how many committees a person could serve on. Ald.
Pham-Remmele stated that she was concerned that one person was making so many decisions for so many different things in Madison.

Ald. Chris Schmidt stated that there had been some good points made about information availability and attaching the application was a good start. He noted that the Mayor’s office is database system and was in the process of being upgraded. He stated that it was the responsibility of the alder to do the homework if they were concerned about someone or something and that information was available on-line. The city already has a rule that if the committee member has three unexcused absences you are off the committee
and that needed to be enforced if it wasn’t. Ald. Schmidt also stated that if there are people who are habitually not showing up at meeting it was up to the committee chair and the alders on the committee to call attention to that issue.

Ald. Schmidt also stated that he wanted to address Ald. Pham-Remmele’s allegation about a bribe the mayor allegedly received. He asked that she be extremely careful about alleging crimes. If the person won’t file a complaint, that Ald. Pham-Remmele going around and repeating this allegation didn’t help anyone. Ald. Pham-Remmele stated it wasn’t a bribe but a contribution. Ald. Schmidt noted she had made this allegation several times and that she needed to be able to back it up or stop repeating it. Ald. Pham-Remmele stated that she had. Ald. Schmidt stated she needed to take it to the police. Ald. Pham-Remmele stated that she had taken it to the Council President (Ald. Tim Bruer) and that he was going to follow through. Ald. Clear recommended that if she wanted to pursue the allegation that she files a complaint with the Ethics Board. Ald. Pham-Remmele stated that she didn’t call it a bribe but a contribution. Ald. Schmidt stated that he wanted to address Ald. Pham-Remmele’s statement in some fashion, that it has been repeated too many times and that it was her responsibility to follow-up on it. Ald. Pham-Remmele stated that she had brought it to the attention.

Ald. Bidar-Sielaff stated that they had discussed some good changes to add to the process but that it was the responsibility of the alder to dig further or if appointments don’t go the way they should, they need to talk to the Mayor’s office because they are Mayoral appointments, they are not Council appointments. Ald. Rummel stated that the Council confirms the appointments. She noted the following ideas brought up during the meeting: that alders could receive an annual list of people in the committee pool, that committee applications could be attached to the appointment report that goes to the Council for confirmation and that research on different municipal appointment models could be provided at a future meeting.

Ms. Piraino stated that there are approximately 10,000 names in their database and that there are more appointees than appointments. She asked if alders really wanted a list of 10,000 applicants. Ald. Bidar-Sielaff asked how the Mayor’s office pulls applicants for a specific appointment. Ald. Clear thought City of maybe a list of people who applied 2 years-5 years ago would be more manageable and wanted to know how often the database was purged. Ms. Piraino would ask Laila D’Costa if the database can provide a listing and how
often it was purged.

Ald. Pham-Remmele was concerned with the Mayor’s office doing outreach to minority communities to serve on committees. She asked if the Mayor’s office was interested in diversity. Janet Piraino responded that they are very interested in diversity and have Lucia Nunez working on increasing diversity on committees. She noted that it was not the only criteria they use, but it support efforts to increase diverse representation.

Ald. Mark Clear stated that CCOC would talk about the alder appointment process at a future CCOC meeting.

THE FUNNY THING IS
Well, not funny ha, ha. But odd. She made some good points and got some things to change a bit. Should be a bit of a victory for her. But wow . . . the alders were kind of straight forward with her about her style and antics and I’m not sure she heard any of it . . . which might be why the alders appeared to be a little rude to her . . . they might be thinking its the only way to get through to her. I don’t know.