This was what happened at the Board of Estimates before they got to the capital budget . . . rifles for cops is biggest issue, some procedural stuff, Pham-Remmele asks questions she didn’t need to ask if she read the materials, questions about why they use contingent reserve for Halloween and lots of undiscussed items.
The agenda with the items is here. I’ll briefly explain the items.
1 – 5 personnel issues (Engineering finance person, HR and police civilian position) passed on a voice vote, no discussion.
#6 – Firefighters Union 311 Agreement
Verveer asked about the ordinance that used to go with Union Contracts? Mike Deiters seemed confused by the question. Attorney May says now they just do it by ordinance, no resolution, they used to need both. This is a resolution not an ordinance so its not right. Can still adopt it and then substitute an ordinance later. [Um, substitute an ordinance for a resolution, I don’t believe I’ve ever seen that and I’m not sure it is appropriate.] Comptrollers office says they just processed what was sent them. City Attorney and HR will work together, council will have to suspend the rules and adopt the ordinance. Passes on a voice vote. [Good catch Verveer! Everyone else seemed just a little too confused on a routine item.]
7 & 8- Cannonball Run bike path – no discussion passed unanimously voice vote
9 – RSVP driver escorts– passes voice vote, no discussion
10 – Miller bus sponsors for New Years – no discussion – voice votes
11 – Accepting homeland security grant for medical services – passes on voice vote, no discussion
12 – Capital budget amendment roof replacement for fire department – passes on a voice vote, no discussion
13 – Downtown Lighting Initiative – no discussion, passes on a voice vote
14 – Bike path at UW Research Park
They moved a substitute – Pham-Remmele asks for it to be explained, what does it mean? Tony Fernandez says UW Research Park offered an easement for bike path on their property with limited indemnification. Easement was already accepted in prior resolution but they asked for modifications. Pham-Remmele asks for the explanation of changes to be sent to her since it involves her district. He says it is in the resolution. She wants explanation for lay people to understand the changes. Clear says that normally that detail is handled by staff but APM requires council approval for changes to liability.
15 – Extension of loan for YWCA
Pham-Remmele would like to see document that shows the fiscal impact. I couldn’t quite hear, but I think they told her to just read the fiscal note. Asst. City Attorney Zellhofer says that interest was supposed to be granted to the YWCA under the former agreement. This forgives the interest and the city doesn’t have to give the grant and the slate is wiped clean and the loan is extended. Brasser says the fiscal note explains that. Passes on a voice vote.
16 – City-County Building Agreement – passes on a voice vote, some mumbling
17 -Northport/Warner/Sherman Neighborhood Plan – passes on a voice vote, no discussion
18 – 22 – CDBG loans to Madison Deaf Association, Housing Initiatives, Future Madison Northpointe, and Independent Living and authorizing housing downpayment program. Passes on a voice vote, no discussion
So far, the meeting has lasted only 15 minutes.
23 – Rifle purchase program for police
Rhodes-Conway asks police to speak to it. Davenport and Wahl speak for the department – they are asking for approval for a payroll deduction system for purchasing hand guns. She asks if it relates back to the personal siting of the rifles? Where would they be stored? Davenport says that they will be stored at the district stations and they will be training officers in storage and handling procedures. Same as the handguns. Can take them home, but they have to use the safe storage procedures. If they will be taken into the community they will know. About 100 officers want to participate.
Pham-Remmele asks about the failed budget attempt, Davenport said that they had requested the guns. Pham-Remmele asks if the guns were important and if they need them to have longer range and not put officers in danger. Davenport says it is important for the person to be using a gun that they are trained on – explains that the sighting is important because people come in different sizes and shapes. Pham-Remmele makes the argument for the police department. [The way Wray was grinning in the back of the room while she was talking leads me to believe he briefed her on what to say] And asks if it is correct. Davenport says that the officers may not be trained to sight the weapons, adjustments can’t be made on the fly. Rham-Remmele asks about where the rifles should be kept, wouldn’t you rather have the officers keep the rifles with them at all times instead of check it in and out. [Did she just say she wants our cops walking around with AR-15s?]Wahl says they will store them at the district stations. She says a chef travels with their knives because they don’t want to work with other people’s knives.[Uh, ok.]
Rhodes-Conway asks how often do they use these weapons? Davenport says that they use them every day, just like they carry their guns with then, very few shootings. One incident in more than 10 years. She asks what types of situations they use the rifled for – Davenport says any deadly force threat – they say they use them every day.
Verveer asks about note from committees – currently they are universally sighted and next year they will sight them for individuals. This program will supplement what they have but they will be moving to individually assigned rifles. Verveer asks about how many are individually assigned and what the priority is for assigning them. They says that they have 140 rifles, purchasing more and will have in the low 200s when done, hasn’t finalized who will get the guns first. Davenport says that they need a minimum amount of guns due to shifts and days off and they identified about 200 as the number of rifles that they need.
Rummel asks about PSRB notes and off duty use and what if they leave the force. Officers who leave the force can keep them. They do carry handgums off duty but won’t allow them to carry rifles off duty, but they might clean them or go to a shooting range, but they will have policies for that.
Bidar-Sielaff asks about legal liability. Ask why there are two parallel programs where some have their own sighted guns, what is risk to city until everyone has a personally sighted rifle. Wahl says that the goal is to have everyone have one. They need a minimum number for the transition plan until they have enough. Bidar-Sielaff says that if we have some rifles, but not enough for all, that is not the safest standard.
Seemed to pass unanimously.
24 – 26 Halloween
24 separated. 25 & 26 passes without discussion.
Rhodes-Conway asks why this is taken out of contingent reserve if we know we are going to spend this every year, Why do we take this out of contingent reserve? This should just be in the budget. Contingent reserve should be for expenses that we don’t know we are going to have. Hopes it is in the Mayor’s budget his year.
Verveer appreciates her concerns and asks Joel Plant to respond and talk about how the costs have gone down. Plant notes this doesn’t include personnel, police, parks, etc. Says out of pocket costs coming down dramatically quickly. Hoping to have that number plateau. Missed some of the discussion. Passes on a voice vote.
[You can find more discussion of this issue here. Also, I’d just like to note that the item gives the following amounts of money to the following departments.
Police Department (Total of $33,000)
54540 Equipment Rental: $7,000 (Musco light truck)
54515 Facility Rental: $2,000 (University Inn)
54901 Other Services, General: $6,000 (mounted unit costs)
54973 Security Services: $18,000
Engineering Division (Total of $4,800)
55210 General Equipment Supplies: $1,800 (rental of construction fencing)
54540 Equipment Rental: $3,000 (rental of construction barrels)
Streets Division (Total of $7,508)
54540 Equipment Rental: $6,575
54801 Disposal Fees: $218
55510 Work Supplies: $715 (poles and mounts for signage)
Parks Division (Total of $3,027)
54807 Portable Toilets: $2,939
55510 Work Supplies: $88
These folks have operating budgets as follows:
Police $58M
Engineering $4M
Streets $22M
Parks $15M
Could they really not just find this money in their budgets?]
27 – Stimulus money
Pariano from the Mayor’s office reports that Madison Metro applied for and recieved $150,000, competitive grant, very pleased that they got the money. Hoping to get some H1N1 money.
This part of the meeting was over in 45 minutes.
