This is a new blogging format for me. I’m attempting to do less verbatim, yet capturing the meetings for those interested and more analysis and comment. Ok, that might have been the worst title ever . . .sorry about that, no idea how to explain this one. This should probably have been three separate posts, now that I think about it . . . .
CITY-COUNTY BUILDING ISSUES
5:15 – 5:25 ish – so first 10 minutes of the audio.
(It’s all one clip and I didn’t edit or listen, may change that in the future.)
County Board Supervisor Al Matano brought up three issues. Excessive use of salt in the winter, herbicide and pesticide usage and using tape on marble on for signs. Alder Mark Clear also brought up he issue of the need for additional bike parking. Travis Myren, the Building Administrator says that they will check into using brine instead of rock salt. He says that the herbicide and pesticide usage has stopped as a result of Matano raising the issue and they will look into using some other adhesive besides tape. Matano pointed out that the usage of tape for signs causes damage to the marble and that the signs were put up because of the homeless persons sleeping on the grates. Myren noted that the grates are dangerous because they can’t hold weight and the steam could burn someone.
Why is this important?
Salt usage. It’s absolutely absurd the amount of salt that was just laying on the sidewalk this last winter. No sand, just pure salt. It’s hypocritical to be using all that salt when we only allow 10% salt and sand mix for most of the city. Good call Matano. And it sounds like they will be looking into doing something more practical and better for the environment.
Herbicide and Pesticide. Again, hypocrisy. And really, with the small amount of grass in the area, do they really need to be applying chemicals? Especially when we prohibit them in so many other areas. Although I have to say, I think the staff largely ignore the usage restrictions and push back on it most of the time. Again, good call Matano. And, it sounds like they have already fixed this one!
Tape on Marble. Seriously, anyone still believe this causes millions of dollars of damage. I can’t tel if Matano was being tongue in cheek with this one, or goading the staff to say there isn’t any damage from tape. Or just trying to get them to take down the offensive signs. Any which way, I expect little to change here.
More bike parking. The county seemed to be thinking that the city put the bike racks there which sounds right. There is definitely a need for more bike parking, but that may be a city issue, says the county.
IT ISSUES – LEGISLATIVE SOFTWARE
5:25 – 5:50 – so start about 10 minutes in and end about xx minutes in.
Paul Kronenberger, the city IT Director, talks about the city and county coordinating on their software for meeting/agenda legislative tracking software. He’s not sure where the county’s process is, the city is eventually going to replace their legistar software in a few years but the two processes won’t line up at this rate. Karen Thurlow, County Board staff said the county is going to going to invite software people in the week of July 15th. 3 vendors have responded and they will do a demonstration. The 18th there is a board meeting and they will have a skeletal resolution and August 15th they hope to pass something. Then the process of tweaking things so the internal system works with the software will go through the fall, they will do some training and would like to have a shadow processes going the first of the year and a new software in place by April for the new board year.
Sup. Matt Veldran is concerned that the systems use are the same, he thinks the public expects that. Alder Scott Resnick notes that the city process is more complex. He is more concerned about moving towards the future, is the software technology 5 years old or 2 years old, can it deal with open data, mobile phones, video files, etc. They all agree that if they can use the same software there would be benefits.
Matano asks why Resnick hates Legistar. Matano says that he recently wanted to look something up and he knew a date that something was adopted, and he was looking at what was voted on in committee and part of that broke down because of poor committee minutes, but part of it was complicated in what was entered. Resnick says that staff and citizens both gripe about trying to find items, he says there are upgrades that could be done, but that is something to be talked about in the next few years. Resnick says that he has some work arounds but he doubts that citizen members have those same work arounds. Veldran asks if part of it is user error. Resnick says that weekly updates are work flow errors, some of the search pieces are system errors. Clear says the biggest issue is entering things consistently. It’s challenging for people who don’t know something about Legistar and how the city works to find the history and find out what happens. After that, its not that hard to use, but its not intuitive without that background. Resnick says they want to make it as simple as possible for someone using the system the first time. Clear says we might be asking alot, but we can dream.
Thurlow says that if there are things the county should be asking, they should let her know. Clear says that is odd when asking an expert user. Clear says the state system is inscrutible. Kostelic says that the state system has an internal process and an internet process and the internal process is super simple and the public side is awful in comparison.
Veldran asks how we could tie our systems together – is it back office stuff? Resnick says that like with open data, both systems could push information and then a third vendor would put that together and there is a lot of possibilities. He says it could be an rss, xml feed or screen scraping. Kronenberger says they shouldn’t do that. Developers would find a way to get the info. Clear asks if any of the software systems would work with other units of government. Thurlow says they asked because of Public Health, but they didn’t ask about Sun Prairie, Mt. Horeb etc. Clear says that it could be a service the county does. Matano says that it would be like sirens or dispatch all over again.
Why is this important?
Ever try to find a piece of legislation at the county. It’s damn near impossible. And finding a document with just that piece of legislation is even worse. The city currently posts links on most of its agendas with the documents that are given to the committee members and elected officials. You can then (sometimes not ideally) track a piece of legislation, see how the committees acted, see all the attachments that go with the legislation and track what is going on and see a clear history. The county doesn’t do that, at best, Personnel and Finance scans their whole packet and puts that on line, but that makes the info harder to use in other ways, but at least it is there! But finding out what happened requires you tracking down minutes of various meetings and maybe the final county board agenda to see what committees it went to. It’s difficult if you weren’t paying attention the whole way through the system.
Is it a dream to think that the city and county would use the same system so members of the public would only have to learn one – probably. Sadly. However, I am somewhat hopeful that someone like Resnick would be able to help us figure out a way to make it work for the public. And I super applaud the new county clerk Scott McDonell for taking this on and making it finally happen!
The comments about the state system are appalling. But that’s a completely different issue. We are lucky locally to be able to have people who are actually trying to do the public a service and let them know what is going on in a meaningful way. It may take them a while, but they aren’t actively resisting! It’s sad to see public standards get lower and lower the more the state legislature does, or doesn’t do.
This conversation is taking place in the context of what can the city and county consolidate. What services might be duplicative. To me, both IT departments seem at least 3 years behind in many instances, if not more. Of course government is slow to act and carries with it additional complications of open meetings laws and public records, but it seems the fear of change and the city attorney’s office often prohibit them from doing a better job for the public. I think the complete opposite of what the open meetings laws and public records laws were designed to do!
Ah, back on point, this conversation is taking place in the context of consolidations. Perhaps combining the departments would help build capacity. And, perhaps the county would help provide more meaningful support for Madison City Channel? Who knows, but I think in the context of consolidation, in many ways the IT departments provide services for other departments and has very little policy issues to deal with, so it might make sense to combine them – tho it would probably be hell in the short term.
OTHER AREAS OF CONSOLIDATION
Last 10 minutes
Veldran asks about snow plowing, road patching, etc and roads that cross jurisdictions. Is there something that can be done there. Clear says it could be like mowing and sidewalks were handled by Parks and Streets, they divided it up by areas of the city instead of departments. Is it an issue of equipment and where it is, asks Veldran – yes, to some extent. They agree to discuss this at the next meeting. Matano says you don’t want to see someone lifting the snow plow like the way the bus system runs through other jurisdictions with its doors closed and refusing to stop.
Thurlow reminds them that food was also an issue and the staff is not available tonight but they agree to discuss that at the next meeting. She also notes that they talked about approval of building use, co-chairs do it when committee can’t act, do you want us to bring language, they say yes.
Veldran asks if the group looks at the building, does it just county staff. Myren says remodels are not looked at by the committee as long as it is not a common area and then the cost is borne by the owner. So City Attorney or 1st floor was done by the county.
Why is this important?
What do you think the city and county should consolidate? Are they missing anything? They are talking about IT, food policy and purchasing upon recommendation a work group made up of Sally Miley (Mayor’s Office), Travis Myren, Jeff Kostelic (County Exec’s Office) and Dave Schmiedicke (City Finance Dir.). You have any helpful suggestions? Ideas? Email the committee members or show up to the next meeting!
