Well, I got done what I could, I was triple booked last night. This includes the discussion on the hijacking of the Madison Metro bus for the Republican Senators . . . so enjoy! Part II and III may appear later this week if I have time!
ROLL CALL: Sanborn absent (I think, it wasn’t repeated for the microphone)
SUSPENSION OF THE RULES: They did.
ITEM 1: Memorial Boys Basketball Honoring Resolution for winning the WIAA Basketball Championship.
CONSENT AGENDA:
They separated
Public Hearing items 2 – 10
Supermajority Item – without objection considered unanimous – the item was for Biolink number 26.
They separated items 65 (ethics), 66 (affordable housing trust fund), 67 (underground Willy St), 68 (temporary Central Library), 74 (non-represented employees)
Discussion
Satya Rhodes-Conway made comments about two items on the consent agenda, but did not separate them. She spoke to the fix of the spelling of Arrowood Drive, she thanks her constituents for bringing it to her attention and helping it get fixed. On item 23 the says that with the resident satisfaction surverys she would like staff to communicate with the alders about the content of the survery.
Laurent Cnare removes item 73 to question staff on the item.
Thuy Pham Remmele votes no on item 7, Mayor’s appointments.
The rest of the agenda passes unanimously as recommended on the agenda, on a voice vote.
OOOPS, GO BACK
Mayor missed a speaker on agenda item one and the early public comment, so they go back to hear those folks speak.
Sorry, long meeting, no time to type the public input this morning.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
Biolink building One registrant, no questions. Judy Compton says this was 12 years of arduous work, this is going to be great for Madison. Thanks Frank Stanisewski and his organization for stepping up to the plate and taking a chance. She thanks Matt Mikolajewski for his hard work, Tim Cooley for realizing the importance of the project and his professionalism and contacts to make the project successful, Federal Department of Commerce for the grant and realizing the midwest regional BioAg Gateway, DATCP and Rod (who passed away) who was instrumental in getting support to the project, as well as Biddy Martin for helping what she calls Biolink 3, and she thanks Michael Gay for believing in the project before others did, this has unbelievable promise to the city, she hols up her little green corn pen, Orbitek will be there as soon as the ink is dry. They are not only coming in, but bringing interest from NASA. This city can go into the future in biotechnology with a fervor. It can take Madison into the next century. She thanks the Mayor for supporting it. Motion passes.
ALRC Report, Items 4 – 7
Only one speaker available to answer questions, no questions. Passes unanimously.
Report of Public Works, Items 8 & 9M
No speakers, no discussion. Passes on voice vote.
Report of Plan Commission, Item 10
No speakers, no discussion. Passes on a voice vote.
ZONING CODE REWRITE
There was a little less than 1.5 hours of testimony from various lobbyists (DMI, Smart Growth) and co-op supporters, and about a half hour of follow up questions.
They place it on the table.
UNDERGROUNDING ON WILLY ST
This item was re-referred to the Board of Estimates on April 11th at request of Marsha Rummel.
TEMPORARY CENTRAL LIBRARY MOVE
It was placed on file without prejudice at request of Mike Verveer. He explains the issue of unpaid property taxes has prevented them from moving to their first choice. They are behind two years on their property taxes. He says that if they make a payment they can go back to this choice, but they have a back up plan that will be coming for a second location.
MADISON METRO HIJACK BY STATE
Cnare says on its face it has merits, there was an incident in our community that irritated a number of us, but before she can support it, she wants to ask about some unintended circumstances. She asks Chuck Kamp how the event occurred and if they passed this, and a potential companion ordinance, what ramifications would it have. What hard spot could that put us in. Please explain policies and procedures about shuttling people around.
Chuck Kamp, Madison Metro explains that the Federal Transit Administration has charter rules and there are provisions for extraordinary and emergency situations that they can support public safety operations. He sent an email with some examples like Fire Department request in winter to use a bus as a warming shelter if there is a fire. They have provided service for Freakfest for public safety services. That is a recognized use for public transportation. They were requested by Capitol Police and other public safety personnel when the events started to unfold around February 14th, and they continued to provide buses to shuttle police officers to the square from where they were staying after that, except for the meeting of March 9th. One of their operating supervisors was approached by Chief Tubbs and indicated that there was a potentially serious safety situation and that the bus was needed to transport some people. The supervisor could guess, but wasn’t sure at that point, specifically. Once it became clear that was the situation, he spoke to the driver to find out if he was comfortable driving and he said yes. They had a bus stationed at Martin Luther King and Doty for a police shuttle, it all happened quickly, but he thought it was an appropriate use. They are seeking reimbursement for costs from February 14th to March 21st. It was about $79,000. It is more helpful for Madison Metro to have a clear ability in extraordinary situations to be able to provide the public support, whether it is for state employees or others, he candidly would like to have that flexibility.
Cnare asked about department protocols for responding to emergencies, are there steps to decide if they should provide the service.
Kamp says it is the guidelines from the Federal Transit Administration where they have regulations for charter services, they explain extraordinary situations where it can be used for public safety. When a request is made, there is a protocol where our dispatch phone number is contacted directly to get a bus or driver.
Cnare asks if the police have similar protocol.
Kamp says that they don’t have an exhaustive list, but during the snow storm on the interstate, that was the first time they helped individuals like that. It fell within the broad definition of emergency or extraordinary circumstances. Their phone number available for that use.
Cnare asks how they determine what to bill?
Kamp says that they tracked the situations where drivers were on overtime or straight time. They billed for those hours. They charged for fuel and lubricant and other costs associated with miles and hours of service when they do their budget.
Compton asks if the court has ever asked jurors to be taken to motels or hotels to be sequestered.
Kamp says that would not be the type of situation, but if they had a request, they would look at the situation and he would refer them to a private charter provider. If there was urgency or public safety they would provide it, but if it was routine, probably not.
Compton says president and vice president were just here, was there ever a situation where you were asked to supply a bus for that.
Kamp says there is another provision in there and they did provide a shuttle of individuals as part of the visit to Madison.
Compton asks if there was a charge for that.
Kamp says no.
Palm says that Assistant City Attorney Hogg sent some info, he reads the rules about secret service and says he doesn’t consider the presidents visit an emergency and they should have been charged. Why didn’t we?
Kamp says it is a judgment call, in situations where they are asked to shuttle where there are no safety concerns, that would fall under the charter rules. In the case of Freakfest and president’s visit, we exercised discretion as he described and they are reviewed every three years and they are not out of compliance with the regulations.
Pham-Remmele has a question for staff, she doesn’t know if it is for the City Attorney or Mr. Kamp, but she trusts staff experience, knowledge and decision, she does not want to tie anyone’s hands, she trusts their professional service to the city. Just in case, if you look back to the scenario, and something happened, someone is injured or killed because service requested is not provided, how would the city be liable for that. That is a very serious issue. She would be willing to listen to either of you gentleman.
City Attorney Michael May says he agrees that they exercise discretion, that very fact that if the Transit Manager decided it was not a situation that warranted bringing out the buses, it would be unlikely that the City would be held liable.
Pham-Remmele asks his advice for her when she votes, she trusts him and Mr. Kamp.
May says she should vote her conscience.
Pham-Remmele says she does that all the time.
Compton says that there were several visits for the president, one of the visits involved political reasons, it was campaigning. Were there any charges for all the services we had to provide for those visits.
Dean Brasser, the comptroller, says there were no bills sent, as it typically the case. We have visits from national public figures and we have seldom received reimbursement for public safety costs associated with them.
Compton says for the safety of those visiting.
Brasser says Madison police work closely with Secret Service in those situations.
Compton says she was told we are the capitol city and therefore can expect to have these special circumstances, is that what we have been told in the past.
Brasser says generally yes.
Shiva Bidar-Sielaff says that they can all agree there was no emergency situation for the senators who had 2 hours prior to their vote to arrange other transportation to go wherever they want to go. Some of them went to the Avenue Bar on our Metro buses. She believes that it was inappropriate, all of us elected officials get to walk out after our vote and tonight we get to face the co-ops after our vote and we know how difficult that is going to be with our co-op friends, regardless of our vote, we are elected to face our constituents after voting our conscience and being able to discuss that in a peaceful way, with those that may agree or disagree, that is what elected officials do when they feel they have voted their conscience. We do it every other Tuesday, she thinks it is an inappropriate use of our resources, it could have been planned for hours in advance by the elected officials and they could have taken other forms of transportation. There was no emergency and there was no violence prior of after that indicated any state of emergency, she would encourage them to look at it as an exceptional circumstance and they need to go on record that this was not an appropriate use of our city resources.
Bryon Eagon says that its easy to look back at that incident with 20/20 vision. In this case there was a request by the capitol police chief and the discretion given to the Madison Metro staff and their judgement that this was warranted in this case they thought it was appropriate, looking back it might be different. But this is a reasonable request in this situation, asking for reimbursement, but changing policies they should retain the flexibility. It easy to compare this to the co-ops and wonder why the capitol police chief had that assessment that he did request the bus for the legislators, but at the saem time, it is pretty easy to have that assessment because we did not agree with what was going on. Many of us were there that night, and I even found that the saying you make a better door than a window isn’t true at the capitol because a window makes a better door than a door. He questions the second part of this, alder Palm’s resolution does say we should have a review of how these decisions are made, but our motions might be different if a bunch of tea partiers were chasing around the Assembly Dems and we should consider those cases too, not just this one because we have certain associations and emotions. So, ideally he’d like to have this separated, but he won’t make the motion, but they should acknowledge the flexibility and judgement by police and professionals in metro is important because they were not privy to that information and this can go both ways.
Palm says that he wrote this because he was there that night and he got to witness the state representatives get on the bus and thought it was highly inappropriate. There was plenty of time, they knew they were going to do this, the city police were out there directing traffic, I know they knew enough time to have someone pick them up, because one of them did. There are lots of ways to transport people, the state has lots of commuter vans located on the Brayton lot that they could have used, they could have used trooper vehicles, they could have loaded them right there in the Risser Office Building if they really were concerned. It’s not a 20/20, rosy glass look, it is at that time I said there is something wrong here, our city resources that are constantly at battle with state budgets, at the time there was an issue. It hadn’t occurred to him to look at the video on the bus, but he has seen that and its quite interesting how they were concerned and then not concerned and then concerned. The crowd was loud and angry but they were respectful, especially the one Senator that walked to a car provided for them. He doesn’t think that this is based on a clearer vision later, he understands that the Metro manager wants to have as much flexibility as possible, if I’m an employee I want that flexibility, however we are the council and we have the right to have policies reviewed and limited if we think so. This is just a resolution, they have the cost estimates and they will be putting that forward to the state. He will be proposing ordinance language that will go to Transit and Parking Commission and council later. Let’s allow the metro manager to leave tonight and approve this resolution.
Clear moves an amendment to strike the last be it finally resolved clause. Eagon explained the meaning behind that, he supports the rest of the resolution, but hesitates to make the Metro Manager make decisions based on other qualifications beyond public safety. It they take that clause out, they can get to the heart and reimbursement without invoking policy changes.
There is no objection to removing that language, it was friendly.
Cnare makes an amendment asking Madison Metro Manager to conduct a review of this incident, balancing our policies and protocols in conjunction with those of the capitol and Madison police and report back to us at the first meeting in May so that we have a thorough review of this. She understands we may want to tighten the rules but for now they don’t have sufficient information, she hopes that is friendly.
There is an objection.
Schumacher (the objection?) congratulates Kamp on all the hard work he has done, given some of the past Metro Managers we have had, that’s a tough job. When the incident happened he called him up and said he didn’t want to second guess him, he was sure the council was going to raise these issues, but given the moments managers have to make decisions, that is why we hire them and he wanted to make sure he knew that he trusted his judgement on this. He also wants to echo Eagon, there’s a part of me that feels there is some partisanship going on, if the cogs were reversed we would not be sitting here doing this. There is a time and place for our review to ask for a report. This issue however has only been highlighted more because what of has been happening here in Wisconsin in the last two month. He still believes that there are people that are still human beings and they may have felt a threat and if they had a need that is fine and we are asking reimbursement and that is fine but to vote and demonize and add more fuel to this miserable dialog, I think we can be better than that. First of all he thinks Metro should not be charged with extra work over something like this, he thinks we have plenty of policies in place and he’d like to believe that managers have discretion over items like this. He likes Alder Clear’s amendment, but to ask for additional study and information, you could get more information quicker than doing it here in a formalized process, it almost starts to look like we are being partisan in this debate.
Motion fails.
Chris Schmidt, says he was going to propose the same amendment as Clear and he thinks the policy should go back to TPC. He doesn’t feel this was an emergency, they created the situation themselves, they should not have been in that position in the first place, but this should go to TPC and he’d work with Larry on it.
Compton asks if Schmidt was recommending referral to TPC, they say no. She speaks against it. For two reasons, one is that without negotiating terms up front and telling them what they will have to pay, I don’t think we have a right to come back to them. We have a situation that was in the eyes of the campus police and emergency and they sent the bus. To go back and make the charge is not appropriate, to look into it and say we wont’ do it again is ok, but after the fact is not the time to go back and say, you can’t say I brought my pony over and I didn’t mean you could ride it for free, you’re going to have to pay me $20 three days later. That is not appropriate. She says she has heard people say there was no threat, we have all sat here in this body where we have had full neighborhoods come out with pitchforks and tho I didn’t not feel I was threatened even tho someone threatened my life in front of staff, I never felt a threat. But the police department felt it was a threat and I was followed home. Staff time was used to make sure I got home safely and that was regardless of the fact that I didn’t think I needed it. Some has to make the judgment call. The people that we swear in and charge with the safety of the city, they look at the whole situation and determine how they are going to protect the safety of the people. You were there and you were incensed, I wasn’t there, I didn’t get incensed, but she knows when you are emotional about any situation you would be looking for something to throw water balloons at. She doesn’t think they can go back and ask for something they didn’t previously determine was the cost for service. She won’t support it.
Brian Solomon completely trusts the Metro Manager, if there were concerns about this being used inappropriately TPC would know about it, we would know about it and the Federal Transit Authority review would uncover it. Appreciates Clear amendment, we’re already seeking reimbursement so he’s not sure what we’re talking about. He couldn’t support original, but this one just asks the transit manager to do what he is already doing.
Steven King says the state is forcing us to become more efficient with our resources, he lives in a district that is underserved by Metro, probably all the way to the periphery and he lives a mile from the nearest bus stop and “I’ll be damned” if I’m going to pay for some state legislators in downtown to take Metro when there is 5,000 cabs and other resources we can get at.
Julia Kerr supports the amendment and wasn’t going to weigh in, its a straightforward thing and so far we have gone to threat assessments and presidential visits and things like that. But she can’t let it go, when we talk about threat assessments, she wants to remind people that we are talking about a governor that has said he thought about sending troublemakers into the crowds to potentially incite a riot of people quietly in our city including my and your kids and their teachers, in fact, this man did consider disrupting people peacefully demonstrating in our city and he hasn’t answered for it and that is wrong.
ROLL CALL:
AYE: Clausius, Clear, Cnare, Eagon, Kerr, King, Maniaci, Palm, Rummel, Schmidt, Skidmore, Verveer, Bidar-Sielaff, Bruer
NO: Compton, Pham-Remmele, Rhodes-Conway, Schumacher, Solomon,
ABSENT: Sanborn
Passed 14 – 5. Clear tells the legislators they can use the cash fare fixed route service.
15 minute recess.
And with that, I have to go to work . . . the rest hopefully later!
Sorry I didn’t have time to get to the non-rep issue . . .
