High Speed Rail Meeting a.k.a. Madisonians Behaving Badly

I really believe there is something in that east side water that doesn’t belong there. Well, that’s not fair, there were people there from all over Dane County, and all the bad behavior didn’t come from Madisonians.

I couldn’t do my usual thorough summary on this meeting from Tuesday night cuz, well, they just kept saying the same things over and over and over and over and it amounted to “we don’t know, there will be a process” to which the response was the equivalent of “there was no process to pick the station, why should we trust you.” I don’t know who didn’t see that coming, and no matter how many times they said, “there was a process 5 years ago”, no one was buying it. That about sums up the meeting, here’s a few other nuggets of information or points of interest.

GETTING STARTED
The two presenters from the DOT were John Oimoen, High Speed Passenger Rail Program & Paul Trombino, Division Operations Director. [ooops, and Chris Klein, don’t know how I missed that.]

Rummel did a welcome, introduced the mayor and city staff, indicated it was supposed to be a neighborhood meeting, the public process will come later, this is the first meeting. Intent is to let people who live along the rail ask questions.

Mayor says he started working on high speed rail 10 years ago, this is exciting, it will put us on the map, baby boomers will have other options, it will “mix people up”, it will help exchange ideas and products and services and new products will be invented. Too early to answer questions about how high the fence is and what color it will be, there will be a public proess preview and opportunity to get questions and comments so as go forward on public participation process, thanks and compliments Rummel for setting it up so early.

There is a letter from the SASY Council and a map of the crossings, but they ran out of them.

PRESENTATION
Here’s the powerpoint.

Highlights are
– Eventually you will be able to connect throughout the midwest, including cities like St. Louis, Cincinnati, Kansas City, Detroit, Chicago and Minneapolis/St. Paul – 9 states.
– This will be 110mph speed service
– They will share the corridors with freight
– Prices will be competitive with air cuz you can get downtown
– They are doing a Madison to Minneapolis environmental study, a joint project of WISDOT and Minnesota Dept of Transportation. They are looking at which corridors they will use, they are looking at routes and alternatives, will pair down routes to alternatives, likely 3, there will be a lot of public involvement in the next 12 months
– The $810M in federal money includes stations for Madison, Brookfield, Oconomowoc and Watertown.
– They did a lot of work in 2001 to look at station alternatives, did an environmental assessment, proposed station locations, got their public hearings done, and had 6 alternatives for Madison.
– 3 alteratives were chosen for further analysis for Madison, the airport, Pennsylvania Ave and downtown Monona Terrace, the others were eliminated.
– Applied for funding in October 2009, projects had to be shovel ready.
– The did a feasibility study of the Madison stations, they went back to their previous work, updated it for current conditions, also added Yahara Station at First St and they chose Monona Terrace because it best meets the evaluation criteria. It was a re-validation of the environmental process.
– They still have to complete the preliminary and final engineering report, environmental document for the stations needs to be done, have grant agreement to start work on the station and will begin drafting work for the corridor design.
– There will be a public involvement process for corridor and station – workshops will be soon, starts in June, they will work with the alder and city, there will be public info meetings as well, and a public hearing.
– They want the draft document approved in 2011.
– This summer they will look at specific station it will be at 1 W Wilson or the DOR building.
– The corridor process will look at concerns about noise and vibration issues, corridor management plan, will do outreach to property owners.
– There will be a labor and business advisory committee to work with small and local businesses.
– There will be a stakeholder committee to look at mitigation options, come up with a corridor management plan, landscaping, fencing, signal and crossing devices – there will be public info meetings on a frequent basis.
– 2013 is the goal.
– There will be 6 daily round trips Milwaukee to Madison.
– It will be a 110 mph service by 2016, originally it will only travel at 79 miles per hour.
– It will take 1 hour 13 minutes to get to Milwaukee with stops, 1 hour 4 minutes express.

QUESTIONS/ANSEWERS AND COMMENTS AND OTHER ITEMS REVEALED BY THE DISCUSSION
Q: Is this a done deal? We’ll get it whether we want it or not, and it is funded, right?
A: Yes.

Q: Will the stations be built on to an existing building?
A: That will be part of the public process.

C: They need to deterine if it will be the DOR or 1 W Wilson buidling in the next few weeks. Then they will have renderings to see what it will look like and they will get input then. (i.e. there is a process, you’re not really included until after we decide)

Q: Why downtown where more crossings and traffic, John Nolan and Blair is bad enough already and to be multimodal downtown doesn’t make sense due to all the traffic and the Isthmus?
A: We wanted to be downtown because there will be more ridership. They also based it on work done in 2000, they used that criteria to decide. Oh, and they are going to study it further. They may need to make improvements to intersections, re-time lights, add left turn lanes, etc to deal with traffic.

Q: Will there be improvements at Blair St?
A: They will study it.

Q: If so, who will pay?
A: There is money in the grant to deal with it.

Q: What three sites did you look at?
A1: They don’t answer the question.
A2: They added Yahara Station and Kohl Center. (but they have another answer in a bit)

Q: How is the train powered?
A: They can buy 8 locomotives, they are diesel. The have less emissions, quieter engines, but if not ready to go in 2013, they can use Amtrack engines.

Q: What about air pollution?
A: They have to accommodate emissions under Monona Terrace, they need to study that. Ventilation system needs to be developed.

Q: Will the trains spend the night downtown?
A: No, they will be at the maintenance facility, that they still need to locate.

Q: Will there be engines on both ends?
A: Never answered.

Q: Where will passengers load?
A (3): They need to decide that in the next few weeks. 1 W Wilson was original idea, 2nd is DOA building, those were the only two that they looked at, they don’t have to purchase anything. The state investment board building was mentioned but they don’t own it and not a location they looked at.

Q: Will the train engines run all night?
A: That hasn’t been determined yet.

Q: What will happen to property values and will they be compensated?
A: You will be compensated if they have to take your property. But mostly, this will be enhancements to the neighborhood.

Q: Will there be street closings?
A: Originally they looked at Brearly and Livingston, they need to look at that again.

Q: Will there be a fence the whole way?
A: They have to look at that.

Q; What will happen to quality of life if neighborhood is split, there will be more crime, drugs and they will need more police presence, will we get it?
A: No answer.

Q: What happens to our community gardens?
A: No answer, they will answer it later. (Answer is, of course, we don’t know.)

Q: Have you looked at what will happen to the livibility of the area?
A: They will sit down with people with concerns and try to mitigate them and try to enhance the community, there are no pre-decisions, the process will decide.

Q: Who will buy our houses if we have to sell? Will you?
A: No answer.

C: Speaker says Milwaukee station is not downtown. The crowd argues about how far it is.

Q: What will be the traffic impacts?
A: They have to study that.

Q: Homeowners live downtown now, not when the study was done. Also housing market has changed. Will you redo the study?
A: No.

C: Rummel asked poor Rob Phillips to talk about the process. He did the best he could to say very little about the DOT process. He said when it is all said and done, not everyone will be pleased, but hopefully some of you will be or you will have a better understanding of the issues, that is what the meetings are about and the process going forward.

C: They said the original announcement was for the airport, that was recommended for trains to the Twin cities, after the announcement, there was tremendous public pressure to say the train should go downtown where the people are. That is when they re-evaluated and threw in the Yahara Station and Kohl Center. They decided the extra riders (60K/yr?) were why.

Q: What about Yahara Station?
A: Yahara was closer to downtown, they hadn’t done any preliminary work, they would have to start over on the environmental study, the project would not get done by 2013. They got the money because the project was shovel ready. He says the traffic impacts are not much more and infrastructure is not in place at airport or Yahara Station.

Q: Why did you make the decision without public input?
A: They say that is not true, that 5 year old document was what they got the grant based on, it said if train terminated in Madison Monona Terrace is the choice, so its not a great surprise Monona Terrace was picked.

Q: What will the fence look like where the rail splits?
A: They will meet with property owners and help figure that out. Don’t know right now.

Q: How do we get involved in the public process?
A: The public involvement team will be in the community with business cards and contacts. Contact them as frequently as you want, there will be workshops in June, they will update the website and work with the alder and city.

C: A train supporter says that the MPO (Metrpolitan Planning Organization) is responsible for picking a train station and they have to release the money. He says they will have a hearing on June 2. He says he doesn’t want to see funds released for downtown station until we know what will be there, will it be an intermodal station. City will have to put money in, grant won’t cover it all. 60% of people coming to use the train won’t come from Maidson, that is why the airport makes sense with all the parking.

C: Lucy Mathiak said that she is worried about transportation costs for the schools if the kids can’t safely walk or bike they will need to pay for buses and this splits several elementary school attendance areas in half. And 3 (or 4?) of the 4 schools are fragile and have been threatened to be closed in the last 4 years (Hawthorne, Schenk, Emerson, Marquette/Lapham) They’re moving too fast and have not allowed enough time to study impacts on schools, small businesses and others impacted.

NOTE: Before I go on, its important to note that the sound system at Olbrich sucks, and people need to speak right into the microphone to be heard and several times, a very rude and obnoxious guy yelled from the back of the room to talk into the microphone. So much so, that almost every speaker that got up there asked him if they could hear and he would tell them if they were good enough.

NOTE: I should also note, that there were many developers in the room, as well as an attorney/lobbyist and members of DMI and the Chamber. I don’t think any of them lived in the district, and certain not in the affected area. As the mom of one of my friends put it “I didn’t expect to see so many suits, I expected to see my neighbors.” She left very, very frustrated by the meeting with no answers to things she is interested in, and she lives right on the tracks.

Q: Are quiet zones in jeopardy because of the project?
A1: No.
A2: They will need to look at safety and will work with the city and evaluate as we go forward.

C: The person who asked the question asked them to give them straight answers.

Q: Speaker asks Mayor Dave why we won’t protect the quiet zones?
A: Mayor Dave Cieslewicz “wait”, we said at beginning of meeting we are coming to you early to frame the questions that you have [funny, do the public’s questions need “framing”?], we said we don’t have answers and they outlined a process to get your questions, but your preferences are also important, so when talk we talk about siting or fences, those are open questions, they can’t tell you, they can’t tell you what the fence will look like.

Q: Is the fence a done deal?
A: Mayor says likely

Q: Everywhere?
A: Mayor is clearly exasperated and says it won’t come through the city at 110mph, but at 79mph, he’s not sure if everywhere, no one knows, this is an iterative process that will take a year. He please with them for their patience, he heard a lot of conclusions drawn about property taxes, schools (He says, I don’t know where that came from in an annoyed tone of voice), sitings, etc. we are getting ahead of ourselves, we want to hear you, this is an iterative process and we will come to conclusions that will ameliorate the issues or get you answers.

C: Same guy still talking that originally asked about the quiet zones, he says he tried to get answers, he found a phone number, called 4 times, message machine not working, then he called Donna Brown at DOT in Milwaukee 4 times, he could leave a message, waited 4 days, not a word, and he told her his questions, they were basic and simple. He then emailed, did get an reply, but no answer, if this is the process we can’t wait a year.

C: Someone says we need to decide in the next 90 days according to the grant.

C: Jerk in the back of the room who is not helping with a tense meeting yells at him to “sit down and shut up”.

NOTE: I thought there was going to be a physical altercation as the quiet zones guy went back to confront the “sit down and shut up guy”.

NOTE: I know the names of more than a majority of people who spoke and were involved, but I don’t know everyone’s names so I’m leaving them all out.

C: DOT apologizes for the phone number, will give his number 266-1114 (I think that was Paul) he will answer any question.

Q: What about the quiet zones?
A3: If infrastructure in place, can’t image why we would eliminate it.

Q: Fencing?
A: Don’t know answers to the questions don’t have them cuz we committed we won’t do it til we get public input, no decision on fencing or station design until public input, so no answers. They says they will have the same process they did for the Marquette interchange, they had over 3000 meetings since 1996.

C: Rummel thanks the quiet zone guy for working so hard on these issues.

NOTE: People have largely left as it is apparent there are no answers to the questions they came for.

Q: Will they use the whole right of way or can they keep the plantings they have in the right of way?
A: They will likely use the whole width of the railroad property on both sides of the tracks.

Q: Will there be two high speed rail and one freight track.
A: They have not determined if 2 or 1 track, that is part of the process, there will be a corridor management plan and that will determine the width of the right of way, they will be working with people. If community gardens are encroaching on right of way, they will have to look at it, may be opportunity to use some of that property.

Q/C: More worried about traffic (doesn’t live on east side) How will this impact traffic on John Nolen and other places they have to travel around downtown? (Makes snide remark about not caring about the color of the fence.) Will there be groups to talk about permanent crossings and bridges so people can cross and walk freely? If not, leave it on the outskirts of town, no one would go back and put the trains where they are, but we can build bridges and pathways, should be done before more planning goes on.
A: They will do the traffic analysis, will try to mitiage and have efficient movement.

Q: I like trains, he lives close and deals with the noise, do people out there agree with me about trains being good?
A: Clapping.
C: Thanks, I just wanted to show that there are supporters in the room, looks like 50/50

Q: Will the trains be much lighter and shorter and not make the same noise, and is it possible to have lights timed so short commuter trains can come through?
A: They will work on quiet zones and safety yes, new passenger trains are primary safety issues, quieter, lighter and better on safety issues. This is not a freight train, you will not hear them the same, locomotives are different, may not hear or see as quickly as a freight train.
A2: They will run on welded rail, not 40 foot rail that makes more noise, concrete ties are also going to help with stability and quieter ride.

C: Speaker gets up to speak and says to the jerk in the back of the room “please don’t yell at me, I’m a teacher and I get that all day long.

C: Homeowner in area, would like a fence, can’t build one cuz of easement.

Q: Asks how they chose this route instead of Canadian Pacific, which is more of a commercial area, why is it where all the neighborhoods are.
A: They looked at that, same number of crossings. Communities not the same, but not a time difference, this doesn’t preclude them using that line when they are going to the twin cities, that could be a route out.

Q: Guy says he’s pro-rail, but the studies they based this on are old, there have been lots of expansions, in other suburb areas and as time goes on, the number of people who use the train will increase from outside the area, thought meeting was positive, but why downtown?
A: Not directly answered this time.

Q: Will it not go to St. Paul?
A: That will be studied. That will take 2 – 3 years to do the environmental study.

Q: Will they be building a second station in 2016?
A: That will be studied.

Q: Who will pay for that second station? People in City of Madison pay for it and 60% of the users are outside of City of Madison.
A: Station costs are included in the $810M includes cost to build stations so working through that.

C: Seems like there are more comments than questions, so I decided to add my comments, he wonders where all the fears are coming from with long trains, these are 8 cars long, they will be quicker than a stoplight if you are stopped, he says the fears are not warranted. Says the trains won’t be more disruptive than the 60K cars on E Washington per day or the 80K cars on the beltline.

Q: Will this be an integrated multi-modal station? How will people get downtown?
A: They are working with the City to address elements of station from an inter-modal perspective.

Q: Why not delay to get it right?
A: We’ve been working on it for a long time.

Q: What about the tracks in Central Park can they be relocated?
A: Yes looking at it, have that info from the city, part of the consideration.

SUMMARY
We don’t know.
There will be a process.
We will look at things you brought up.
Nobody believes them due to how the process has gone so far.