Questions of Chief Wray and some comments from the council members. And people ask to be added as sponsors.
QUESTIONS OF STAFF
Bridget Maniaci asks Chief Noble Wray, she says she heard it said that one of reasons to be in support of this resolution is that the police department having is having difficulty getting information they need for the job because of Mahoney’s policies. What has your department been seeing?
Wray hesitates and asks if the question is specifically about Mahoney’s policies?
Maniaci indicates yes.
Wray says the problems can’t be tied it directly, but many people don’t draw distinction between law enforcement, what one agency does could have an impact, can’t come up with a situation and connect it to Mahoney’s policies and tell you about the impact with the community. [He’s treading carefully.]
Maniaci asks if it is accurate or inaccurate that officers are having trouble getting info when someone calls about domestic violence because of policies from the sheriff that if they have to bring people to jail they will be run through ICE, and are people less cooperative with Madison police.
Wray says the relationship fluctuates, they have a good sound relationship with immigrant community, they have Amigos en Azul, but whenever police or ICE do something, there is a heightened fear, we have less contact, less discussion, depends upon what is going on, if high profile or well known person is taken to jail, the for that period of time it is more difficult, it is a live dynamic relationship that they work on, not consistent fear, depends on what takes place recently with sheriff and other agencies.
Maniaci asks if there is more demand on resources? From staffing level? Are people over-worked, more outreach? Are these policies affecting nuts and bolts of police department?
Wray says that making those inroads in the community, having the relationships, need to allow officer to get time to make those connections, from a policy standpoint, policies are complex, people don’t make a direct connection with policy, but they are having a effect, there is overwhelming fear at times.
Lauren Cnare ask Wray about felony language in the resolution, does that make sense, what are the felony charges and how would you work with the sheriff? What kind of cooperation would be necessary? Would that work?
Wray says the part that impacts us is that the policy from a citizens perspective, one law enforcement group is not distinguished, sheriff policies are his own, he decides who will be contacted, what we have done is set a threshold of saying we will make sure if violent gang members and immigration is an issue, we will deal with it that way, we try to strike a balance with our policy, it is imperative that we continue with trust and communication, with limited resources, when do we contact and work with federal authorities, that is striking a balance, that is the policy they need to use.
Cnare asks about if had conversation about differences in policies, is there an on-going discussion or has it shut down?
Wray says no recent discussions, last was when Hamblin was leaving, there was a noticeable increase in number of contacts for border patrol, that was a discussion back then, nothing recent.
Cnare asks if he would undertake that discussion even if we pass this, she doubt sheriff will change if we pass it, will you be an entree?
Wray says Mahoney is sheriff for Dane county and Madison, he won’t pretend to tell sheriff how to run the jail, council could invite Mahoney here, to meet with council leadership after this passes tonight.
Shiva Bidar-Sielaff asks about contract with Dane County jail, how much do we pay them?
Wray says they are trying to hunt that down, but there is not contract, they pay ber inmate, cost escapes him right now, but its primarily for municipal charges while in the jail, there is no contract they can track down, but statuatory language.
Bidar-Sielaff asks if it is $78.60 per night?
Wray says he can find that out.
Bidar-Sielaff says that was what it was a year ago.
Wray says it just went up.
Bidar-Sielaff says that many people tonight were people you worked with in community, talk about trust based community policing, what have you done to work with people, so they don’t fear law enforcement?
Wray says there is no other issue bigger for community safety than trust, its critical to get information, in terms of working relationship and putting strategies in place, they have neighborhood officers[groan. which has been cut year after year], Amigos in Azul, they recruit and hire people from the community, they work along side community members, address their needs as well build relationships, but it just takes one incident to erode the trust.
Bidar-Sielaff asks if lack of uniformity between policies across organizations makes a difference, when you drive from Madison to Middleton you don’t really know where you are, that other law enforcement policy on immigration can create a challenge for you?
Wray: “Aboslutely” [Finally, why is it so hard to drag an answer out of this guy?]
Bidar-Sielaff says she knows he has attended conferences and this has been a hot issue for years, what are you hearing? Am I correct to say that there are many publications from well regarded police organizations and think tanks that talk about unintended consequences of immigration policies, like the Police Foundation Report.
Wray says that the 2008 report has a survey of 400 medium to large cities and had an excellent return rate, some of things they found were that that 74% felt important it was important that federal laws be managed by and dealt with by the federal government, discussion at beginning of publication goes into great detail of our responsibility for public safety, inconsistent immigration laws adversely impact our ability to do that, most chiefs believe public safety is their main role, it is a well documented. There have been many forums in the last years, it is important across the united states.
DISCUSSION
Marsha Rummel says it was a thrill to witness all the people come out tonight, there was a short introduction time and yet it filled our gallery, maybe due to the heightened awareness nationally. She was struck by the testimony asking “do we all have our papers?”, no, we have white privilege, that is a fundamental thing we need to face as our country changes from majority white to people of color, our schools are starting to show that, we need to face that., she thanks the Chief for his words, she says her role is to send a message not just to federal government but to the sheriff, the actions of sheriff are dividing the community and creating danger and creating fear due to things outside our local control, she says NAFTA is the beginning of what happened in Arizona, our workers were displaced here and displaced in Mexico, one speaker talked about agriculture. Everyone is afraid, and its worse with the recession, that’s the scary thing about all of this, she is proud to have worked with the alders to put this together, she was struck by chief’s comments that council leadership should meet with sheriff, we are representing people in audience saying stop what you are doing, do it in a better way, its not your job to carry out federal policy, our federal policy changes, look at Tienanmen Square and how the policy changed, policy changes upon if need workers or not, if we are at war, we can intervene and we can act and this is an important issue we can send that message.
Bryon Eagon thanks speakers, says it showed courage and patriotism to come here tonight, it was important to show names and faces and stories, its a good example of changes to be made. What defines citizenship, is it documentation or is it something more, there is nothing more American than being an informed engaged citizen that participates in government, thanks for being a part of process and exhibiting that type of citizenship.
Steve King asks if only one in opposition?
Mayor confirms.
King asks to be added as a sponsor, he says he originally ran from the resolution, someone on our council said that the party belongs to those that show up, the opposition emailed from their homes and said things that are not true, not validated, didn’t bother to read the resolution, they made assumptions and they were all wrong. He lives in the whitest part of Madison and I ran on platform of not being on council to be involved in national policies, he had that conversation with Bidar-Sielaff, but this comes down to a severe local impact and message to federal government we won’t enforce their laws, even the lame duck president couldn’t get this passed, this is an election year and they won’t do anything this year. We need to send a strong and clear message. A heartfelt thank you to Bidar-sielaff for stirring the pot, we are having a debate and showing opposition for what they are, cowards sitting at home emailing us, if one of my constituents want to email me something thoughtful I’ll listen, we won’t attack you, don’t have guns, (laughter erupts as people point out several police officers in the room), he says that even if we do, we have 8 cameras in the room and it will be caught on tape. He thanks people for showing up, and he’ll be a sponsor after all.
Judy Compton says she likes that Bidar-Sielaff took an issue that could be volatile that could cause so much hatred with people standing and spitting and throwing daggers and put council in the situation that is impossible and it wasn’t, she had a long standing policy that she does not vote for things that do not affect Madison directly, when Bidar-Sielaff first called her, even tho she graduated she is still her mentor, she told her to be wary and told her, don’t stir the hatred, but she took a positive forward motion, putting people at throats doesn’t need to be done, that was really something that she had concerns about, Alder Bidar-Sielaff created resolution that no one in this room can deny, the resolution she created sends a message of support to our residents that says that we support you, we need to be adjusted and we are passing that word along, she supports the police department, the programs that Madison police department instigated to eliminate disparity, feels sad that we have young people that are afraid to go to the park, that’s education folks, the police have outreach programs that they themselves sponsor and people don’t need to fear this police department, if there is fear, this is something taught young, we need them to have positive self worth, to play on playground without fear, we should encourage schools and communities and neighborhoods where people grow up, don’t let the hatred take you, understand police officer is their friend, don’t put it on the department, she does not think that Madison has a problem, she will vote for it, need to send a message, she has never seen anyone get the knowledge Bidar-Sielaff has gotten, this was presented in such a way that this council with honor can send it along, hopes everyone will vote for it.
Bridget Manaici drove 10 hour to be here, from Memphis. She saw a lot of things she have been thinking over while listening to the speakers, it’s the little things we can do, that is problem with non-binding resolutions, we can add our voice to say we will not stand for discriminatory policies in our city, it is an important stand, important vote, don’t want to see city divided along cultural and race lines, don’t want to be a city council representative of some of the cities that I saw this weekend, if we have policies that are sowing mistrust and fear that’s bad, we want a secure and safe community, and policies that sow distrust, fear and silence is not a community I want to be a part of.
Julia Kerr requests to council leadership, Clear and Cnare, if this passes, request a meeting with Mahoney to convey the content of the public testimony and the resolution to him, if passed as a strong sentiment on part of council and report back. [I believe the report will be something along the lines of “Go to hell, I’m the sheriff, I don’t have to listen to you.” They’ll probably clean that up a bit, but I think that will be the report. If he even bothers to meet with them.]
Lauren Cnare – King made me think, its been quiet in the 3rd district, I was pestering them this weekend, we need immigration reform, needed to hear Chief Wray and people who talked about experiences, we are not done, she would like Chief Wray and Bidar-Sielaff to come to the meeting with Mahoney. She thinks everyone should go on legistar and pull up this resolution and print it and send it to your legislator. She is happy to support it. It has an importance on many fronts, we need to make sure to get it to people who can make the changes at all levels of government.
Chris Schmidt – thanks to everyone who came, and hundreds if not thousands behind you, he won’t repeat what has been said, he will focus on own ancestors who walked in to the country, even the Irish ones, and who knows what trouble they caused, or the Dane Vikings or the gypsies, this isn’t a new problem, how much trouble did they cause, this is a drop in the ocean, our drop and we are pushing it forward, our nation is going the wrong way, it was easier 50 years ago, he has seen it in my lifetime, wish we could do more, gald we have this much behind us.
Bidar-Sielaff thanked them, she worked with people, heard the stories, people who live realities day to day and live the humanity, those that do not see the humanity and look at this in simplistic way, the world is not simple, the lives of people who come here are not simple, thank you for bringing the diversity of Madison to the council. She reads the co-sponsors –Rummel, Rhodes-Conway, Maniaci, Schumidt, Verveer, Solomon, Kerr, King and Mayor Dave. It is really important to realize that tonight we will do what Ceceila said, to create community, we are listening, not turning our backs to difficult debate. The resolution on Cinco de mayor was good, no one opposed it, who would, well, maybe someone on this council would. Do not kid yourself that you think there are not families split every day in our community. We have a proud tradition of accepting diversity. If one is not an American citizen, there is no path, I think I contribute, and I am lucky because of an American citizen. When you think about why people don’t just wait in line, well they want nothing more than to get that paper. It is important to note that two Arizona laws that sparked the national debate are the piecemeal local polices that create division and racism. We are all frustrated, we need reform as soon as possible. There are some members of the community that did not show up, they say that they are the majority in favor of the new law, during civil rights battle, they would have said they do not want african americans to have equal rights. Politics might be about polls, not policy, look in your heart, it will lead you to a wall or to a better place. Even 70 years ago we did the same to the Japanese American community, people thought that was a good idea, don’t base it on national policy, 90% of our city if not more is for this policy and – she has not heard from one constituent opposing in her district. She thanks Chief Wray and Madison police who show commitment to trust based policing, but law enforcement is law enforcement and safety and protection is their job. Trust is the key word, any time one segment of our community lives in fear we all suffer, it makes us all suffer, we need to always make sure to challenge unjust policies and law, that is what democracy about. That is why they come here, this is another way for us to go on record. She would love to meet with Sheriff Mahoney, but she has been doing it for 2 years, he has not budged one iota, she spent enormous amount of energy trying to reason with him, she spent countless hours and all she encountered was sexism, racism and honest disregard for what community has said, that is not a good feeling, she doesn’t take those words lightly, that is what happened. She is glad to be sitting in this chamber and this room and this is a community I love, we had a progressive past, lets have a progressive present and future. Remember everyone their dreams are our dreams and their childrens dreams are our dreams, thank you.
Applause
Compton wants to be added as a sponsor.
Motion passes unanimously, with the 5 absences. (Sanborn, Solomon, Schumacher, Claussius and Pham-Remmele)
WRAPPING UP
Clear introduces a resolution but I didn’t hear what it was.
King introduces a resolution about fireworks.
Adjourn. 9:30.
