Presentations on the proposals and input from the public from Thursday evening . . . if you’re one of the many who left after the questions, you missed the last 20 minutes of discussion and may want to check it out. I was surprised, there were no press at the meeting. Which is why this is late, no pressure to get it out!

This was kinda live blogged, I took less detailed notes so I could get it done quickly this morning after I added links, bk comments, etc.

Present at beginning of meeting: David Wallner, Kevin Briski, Bob Shaw, Joe Clausius, Andy Breman-Wanek
Absent: Alders Bridget Maniaci and Mark Clear
You can tell this is a Cieslewicz committee, the good ol’ boys are joined by the Alder who is the only woman. Sadly tho, Soglin appointed the last person, also male.

PRESENTATIONS

640 E GORHAM

LUSSON/TIERNEY
Live across the street, want to purchase the home for a single family owner-occupied house. The would restore the house, they are interested in all three houses and think its important to preserve and restore the three houses. Joe Lusson explains the history of the houses. Says they will keep the floor plan the same and make sure the public has access to the park and the home by hosting public events. Lusson was on the board of the Madison Trust for over 10 years. Has bought 2 other houses in the neighborhood to restore and sell to owner-occupants. They are involved in the neighborhood. Working with TDS Custom Construction who has gotten many historic preservation awards. They would initially put in $89,000 and sweat equity. Will start with the outside because that is what the public sees. Will be restoring the plaster and upgrade electrical and boiler system. Talked about restoring windows to be historically accurate, perhaps put in a screen porch if Landmarks approves and it doesn’t shadow the living space. Will work on the front porch and restore it. They would make the house energy efficient and they will keep the house the way it is. They will work on water run off. They support community gardening. They will host fundraisers for parks groups. Annual open house with the Trust with presentations on the park, architecture and history of the houses. They feel this is compatible with the neighborhood and comprehensive plan. They show the three other houses that they own in the neighborhood with interior before and after photos. He went through the budget. He talks about the referendum, thinks it will sound low to sell the house for only $100,000 so he talked about his talking points for a campaign. He says that the houses should not be moved, the houses provide a sound barrier to make the park more usable. They list community supporters and then Sam from TDS Construction talked about their company ans awards for historic preservation. He says the house begs to be a single family home as part of architectural integrity and history.

DORSCHNER/OKROLEY
Dawn O’Kroley starts off, talks about why the site and house is a good project. They talked about their team experience. Talks about her architecture firm and how she can walk to work. She’s a member of the Urban Design Commission as well as Richard Slayton on her team. She talks about their work on the Brittingham Boathouse. They work on public architecture and focus on natural settings and historic sensitivity. Rich Glover is with the construction company, introduces himself and the company. Also gotten restoration awards. OKroley talks about the site. House originally had neighbors and not a big open space on the side of the house. She talks about how to address the transition and edge of the house that was never intended. Talks about this being a gateway to the city and the first view of the lake. She says this will be a two-unit. She is prepared to live in the house as owner occupied and have a small space. They are committed to sustainability of the property and storm water run off issues. She shows the footprint of the house. The front door would go to the upper unit and she would change the side door to a front door for the first floor unit. She says the outdoor living spaces would be kept away from the park as much as possible. Richard Slayton talks about the public spaces, he talks about preserving the trees and removing the fence. They want to use native plants in the landscape and rain gardens. Any ornamental plants would be period specific. They talk again about removing the fence to show view to the lake. They also want to have historical markers to bring an identity to the secret historic district. Slayton talks about the desire paths in the park and how to allow paths to go where people want to go. They talk about three public meetings, the budget, being accessible. She had an appraisal done and they thought the house was worth $200,000. She can put in $280,000. $35K in site improvements, will underground the electrical. They would pay $3600 for the land lease and pay taxes. She says she will be able to sustain the house. She says she talked to Ledell Zellers and they would have additional downpayment for the house next door. 646 would be residential, so there would be adjacent owner occupancy. Thinks two houses would be better to have a shared parking solution.

PATHWAY CLINICWALDEN LIVING
Joe McCormick introduces the team members. Says that he and the Dr. would own the properties and it would be a supportive living campus. They would like to take down the trees to have a nicer view of the lake and would like to be able to use the buildings for any currently zoned use if their plan doesn’t work. They would lease the property for $1. They would buy the properties for $450,000 and put in $200,000 in renovations. The Program Manager talks about the program for people transitioning out of a hospital situation. This is for professional adults to help them reintegrate in the community. The doctor talks about why supportive living leads to better recovery. Works with patients with eating disorders. He says that there is a gap between treatment and returning to the community, this isn’t treatment. No treatment provided, only supportive services. They would have supportive living with 24 hour services, with meals and transportation and then step down to more independence. Says there are limited options for, particularly women with eating disorders and other addictions. He talks about the goal of reducing recidivism. This type of service is not available. Program Manager talks about creating 6 jobs per property, she says UW Madison would be a good place to get coaches. People would stay a minimum of 60 days and they promote community integration.

HANAH JON TAYLOR
No presentation.

646 E GORHAM

PATHWAY CLINICWALDEN LIVING
See previous presentation.

HANAH JON TAYLOR
No presentation.

704 E GORHAM

MIDWEST RESTORATION AND PRESERVATION
Kunz introduces himself. Says also has preservation experience. No powerpoint, but the other three did. They believe in neighborhood direction and control. Talks about experience with the university. He says it is a rental, graduate students in international studies. The largest room might be for a visiting faculty member. They will buy local. Thinks they would need $300,000 for the restoration. He says they will hire architects to help them decide how much to spend. They think they gave the city a good deal. They will collaborate with the UW. Wife thinks he is crazy to do this, there is no financial return to their family, its what they are giving back to Madison and the University. Tried to split the profit with the city, the principle goal is not to make money. Would like to have half the money go to TLNA and the rest go to the City. He’s surprised there weren’t more bidders. They are small potatoes, not developers, but preservationists. When he saw the 2005 appraisal, it reminded him how much the market had changed. The presentation has the past projects they worked on. They worked on a Frank Lloyd Wright house in the 50s in Oak Park. Not looking at adaptive reuse, they want to restore it. The basement has to be redone, that is phase two. They need to put in a period appropriate kitchen first. They would be happy to collaborate with the neighborhood.

PATHWAY CLINICWALDEN LIVING
See previous presentation.

PUBLIC COMMENT

Paul Woodard – Support OKroley not wish to speak – not from the hood.
Melissa Huggins – Support OKroley, not wish to speak – not from the hood
Kudy Karofsky – Supports Lusson, lives downtown, not wish to speak.
Guy from Oconomowoc, not wish to speak, wanted info.

Adam Plotkin – lives downtown. Supports Lusson Proposal. They have extensive plans, will set new mark for preservation in the city, will work with other groups at own expense to improve property, have record of historically accurate preservation. Was on board and president of Madison Trust for Historic Preservation. Likes single family owner-occupied, very few downtown. Not many families with children live downtown. Its a comprehensive holistic approach. Also sent a letter in the packet, he is not the immediate past president of Capitol Neighborhoods.

Gay Davidson-Zielski – supports Lusson proposal. Lives on E Gorham, owns three 100 year old houses, loves old houses, loves fact neighborhood still maintains a lot of original flavor. Didn’t know that this is where they live, walks by it, its the prettiest house on the block. On Tenney Lapham Neighborhood Association Board for 25 years and seen neighborhood change and its a struggle to keep it changing in the right direction. They painfully passed the neighborhood plan, and trying to implement it. Want to see more single family occupants. Likes that they will renovate, likes the porch idea, it looks gorgeous, no problem endorsing everything about it. On the other proposals, also supports the International House, her son is an international studies student. She does not support the Walden Living project.

Margaret Shay – Livingston St, neither supports or opposes and doesn’t want to speak.
Joe Benardi – supports Lusson, not wish to speak

Abby Mortimer – Jacobs Way, Mendota Rowing Club, neither supports or oppose. Treasurer and wanted the group to hear their opinions and wanted to hear more. A couple items are the site improvements, there is just a mowed path down the hill, site improvements are valuable. When it rains its slick to go down the hill. She likes the thought of an owner occupied, she appreciates current tenants that are visible in the park, walks to park at 5am. High school students in the afternoon and having permanent residents that are visible are things they support as well as improved access.

Michael Carlson – supporting Madison Community Cooperatives, not from the hood.
Joe Brogan – from neighborhood, wished to speak, not here
Jason Tish – Madison Trust for Historic Preservation – supports proposals of owner occupancy, would like them all owner occupied to provide mending of residential fabric of the historic district. When corporate ownership they are not as invested in the neighborhood, rentals reduce incentive to maintain the property.

Joe Schumoe – He is a Real Estate Attorney, Foley and Lardner, he’s the neighborhood Parks chair, not here to represent anyone. He lives half a block form the properties, supportive of Joe and Aleen. Supports because finances are very good and good for the city. They have a good track record. Supports owner occupancy at 640 and 646. Collins house not owner occupied in the neighborhood plan. Liked Dawn’s (OKroley) proposal too. Liked 640 staying single family. Intrigued by Dawn’s last slide to include 646, its now 3 or 4 unit, might be good to have an owner occupant there. Concerned about Walden Living, didn’t hear about historic preservation and not owner occupied. Nothing about access to the park either. Loves European American Neighborhood, the Sweede House, could be some nice synergy.

Mrina Dukler – from Baldwin St- supports Lusson does not wish to speak
Nick VanCourt – from Baldwin St- supports Lusson does not wish to speak

Robert Navel – Assistant Public Works Director for the County – support OKroley – he has worked with the Dorschner group for the past 4 years, she does a lot of public meetings, has done many renovations in the City-County Building, study at Lakeview, has a good ear, listens to public and interprets their wants and needs and puts it in the design.

Richard Feihoffer – the neighborhood cranky guy – says they are doing the right thing returning these to the tax rolls. Wants them to follow the neighborhood plan written 100 years ago. Thinks the houses are incredible, everyone wants to save the houses, save them and he wants to move them and give them additional park space.

Richard Linster – Letter of support for Lusson from the Neighborhood, Joe and Aleen have a proven track record with houses they have renovated. Not just a wish or goal but living reality, they have the least changes to the houses. The position of the houses is key as well as architectural integrity. These houses are key to our past. Intrigued by the International proposal, uncomfortable with Walden Living, locks up all there buildings, no owner occupancy and no public access, might want to reopen process for 646.

Hanah Jon Taylor – Resident of 640 E Gorham and he probably knows more about 640 than anyone. Its no secret that he and neighbors want to stay and that city wants to sell and he would like to say that in his 7 years of living here, he has seen Joe and Aleen have a passionate investment in neighborhood and buildings and would like to offer endorsement for their project. They are great neighbors.

I should have spoken to say that there are two neighborhoods that share the James Madison Park and everyone talked about the Tenney Lapham Neighborhood folks, most of whom live closer to Tenney Park than this park and no one talked about the James Madison Park Neighborhood residents who all live within 3 blocks of the park. I think its because our alder just ignores us.

QUESTIONS OF SPEAKERS

PUBLIC

None

APPLICANTS

THEY PAUSE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THEY ARE DOING

They are all invited to the table.

David Wallner, committee chair, informs the committee and public that the appraisals are in, they won’t get them for a few weeks, the staff is working on them.

Dan Rolfs, committee staff, says they are reviewing them, he thinks they are reasonable and in the ballpark with the proposals the have.

Wallner wants them to vote on-line soon.

Bridget Maniaci asks if they are making any decisions this evening?

Wallner says no, they want the staff reports. There will e another meeting and he would like to vote on it before next meeting, to get the scoring, Wallner keeps saying vote . . . but he means that he wants them to score the proposals before the next meeting.

Maniaici asks how long they will be staying tonight. Wallner has been opening grumbling about wanting to be out by 9pm

Wallner says as long as they have questions. Good for him!

640 E GORHAM

Bob Shaw asks about Pathway Clinic.

The doctor says that this is a separate business, in Delafield they have office space in proximity to supportive housing. Not critical to this proposal. They treat people with eating disorders and it would allow them to provide resources focused on that if needed. This treatment would be separate, but that aspect of this is minor. There are other options and treatment provided elsewhere for the majority of things people are dealing with.

Wallner says he used to represent the neighborhood and many have questions about social service agencies, if you lived across the street would there be neighborhood safety issues.

Dr. says he doesn’t believe so, the houses would be focused on professional females cuz of eating disorders and chemical dependency and they would not mix males and females. He says it will be either supportive living and step down or the male population, which is also underserved on eating disorders, could maybe be served if three houses could accomplish that, otherwise not.

Wallner asks about drug addiction issue, would they be served?

Doctor says that if they are chemically dependent not alcohol and drugs, they will be screened, not everyone is appropriate, they would need to be responsible as a tenants, its in their interest not to have problems in that regard in the house (it would be a problem for the business), and problems would occur there first. The target is professional women.

Architect says that they are serving professional females with means to pay for own treatment, not government or hospital based program.

Program Manager says that in Delafield they live in an apartment complex with other tenants not associated with the program, it is in their best interest to screen tenants to make sure great fit and circumvent having any issues.

Maniaci asks about their target audience, they have a land lease for $1 for 99 years and nothing on floor plates, interior renovations, some of other proposals put more long term effort – this all comes down to money, architecture and history and your application is a bit light, can you fill in the blanks, how are you paying $1, especially when you are a for-profit entity. Her question was really rambling and I had trouble trying to understand it, but I think this is what she said.

Architect says he is a licensed architect, he is LEED certified, he does historical preservation, design layout will keep to historic values as much as possible, its already a suite layout at Collins House and Zigleman. They are not historically preserving them, not restoring to original, the houses have been renovated and re-renovated, they will keep the exterior historically accurate. They will be paying over $1M to the city, the other proposals are not going to get as good of return, they are paying cash, they won’t pay taxes on something not theirs (the land), they have the largest up front payment they can do and still pay mortgage and costs. Their money will be paid up front and the city can use it, and the other proposals will never catch up to the reinvestment that money can provide right now.

Maniaci says that 25 points are for public access and there is minimal to non-existent access to neighborhood.

Dr. says that . . . stutter . . . they do not want to commit to this, but with the treatment of these types of illnesses, this is development of coping skills and integrating, they would be able to provide support group meetings at Collins House, there is a eating and addiction connection, they could have a nice cafe type area. Could be open to the public, in Austin TX they do it and might be additional jobs. That would be the vision, but can’t guarantee it, it wouldn’t be honest. Its a wellness setting.

Clausius asks about all three properties, 640 clinic, sounds like they need clinic in close proximity, or not? Is is a deal breaker if just the other two.

Dr. says that there are many good clinicians in Madison, so proposal incorporated a small office space, 1000 sq feet, could be accomplishes in a variety of places. Not a deal breaker, complicates it more than needs to be.

Claussius says they want 640 to be residential, otherwise he likes the proposals on the other two.

Architect says there are advantages of having a complete campus. The other two are residential, act as multi-family residences.

Wallner asks if 12 units. They think so.

Architect says there will be one full-time staff on campus. This creates jobs, that might have been under-emphasized.

Dr. says that safety and food prep, this is a numbers thing, having the support staff, 24 hour staff necessary to manage the property from a tenant stand point and make sure people are checked in and things happen on or around the grounds are consistent with the spirit of the program, they have 24 hour care, meal prep, etc. Eating disorders and addiction issues are a problem, if you send someone to the store, every store has alcohol. Staff may sleep there but not reside there.

Breman-Wanek asks about interior changes, are the one bedroom apartments, do they have kitchens and sinks and bathrooms.

Architect says strategy is taking what is there, kitchenette on upper floor, will use basement kitchen to serve the residents, so no kitchenette in the suite, and they currently have a bathroom, the additional idea of added bathrooms, would want to have least impact on the home, would have two bathrooms in strange nooks already there, not damage plaster or woodwork.

Dr. talking a bit, not sure what I missed. Would make the building wheel chair accessible and have a ramp to food prep area.

Wallner starts asking a question.

Mark Clear reminds them they are on the 640 house.

Shaw asks OKroley about the appraisals, houses they were compared to were bungalows on a side street and you have lake front.

OKroley says its an opinion, comparable sales are difficult to find, and there was an assumption on dollar value for deferred maintenance, home was $200K and land was $33K.

Maniaci Bridget says the proposals are diametrically opposed and very competitive – she asks the two people with proposals for 640, if there is anything in the other proposals that you would have a problem doing, take the fence down or site improvements. Both bring a lot to the table, asks about costs.Various mumblings about if that is an appropriate question.

Lusson says that is hard to answer, they haven’t had anytime to think about the fence, but could work with that.

Maniaci says they a child, do they see value of it or keep it? Wow, talk about inappropriate. Family status discrimination?

Lusson says its not a tall fence.

Tierney says fence is historic,

Lusson says public access might be a stretch, since they only have a side yard, but would talk with the parks department.

Maniaci says that public access is only for Collins house

Lusson says he talked with staff about that because the RFP asks about it, but not in the points. They are serious about that, they do it already. He says on the public amenities he would like to work with parks, they barely mow a path for the rowers but they put more activity and life in the park than anyone else, but that’s city park land, we have little side yard, he’d like them to ask. Lusson says no to a two unit, cuz of history of house.

Maniaci asks OKroley if anything is problematic.

OKroley talks about public spaces being physically accessible, would like the building to be accessible, but door widths preclude meeting the codes, there are ways to do it but compromises it. Public view of the property, outdoors space completed by this time next year, future growth would finish basement in future but add to the tax base so in terms of financial value of the house, 2 unit is highest value for the property. Regarding the perception of single vs 2 family, June Draege, Wis. Historic Society found it acceptable. This does not compromise the view of the home from the outside.

Maniaci asks about initial offer, the lease payment increased by $1200, is that cuz of screen porch?

Lusson says that is unrelated, the comparisons were apples and oranges in State Journal and in staff analysis. They are paying property taxes, so that is the increase, just to show apples to apples, they are willing to increase that. Value would go up with the screen porch. Their offer would be $10K per years, their proposal is on par with the big money rehab proposal. The other proposal is money up front and then nothing.

Maniaci says that the Collins House is a “sweet deal”, she is not going up, you are proposing a hard number at flat rate for duration of project.

Lusson says no.

Maniaci asks what the long term vision is on the financials to the city?

Lusson says he looked at the Marshall Park lease, its complicated, they will negotiate and what the slide shows was annual inflationary increases to be worked out, something reasonable. Goal is not to amass rental properties, but sell to owner occupants, they will sell two of their houses in the next 5 years, 625 E Gorham will be sold sooner, hopefully in 2 years, it will simplify our lives and we will have ample money to pay off the mortgages and do the right thing with historic preservation.

OKroley says she is making a $280K commitment, $35K in site improvements, $75K cash, and she considers site improvements public funds. She has a $11K construction contingency. We are all expecting things to be discovered. Leases will be renegotiated and increase, that is to be expected and open for negotiation.

Maniaci tried to ask for something – where the money is going – should it go to parks or general fund.

Wallner tells her that her question is inappropriate. He asks staff to comment.

Rolfs says council decides where money goes, but of course they can comment on it.

Wallner says this is not part of criteria.

O’Kroley says that there will be public meetings to determine that.

Tierney says there was money for James Madison Park in the budget tat was recinded.

Maniaci says they were trying to justify the money.

Lusson says its a no-brainer for money to go to the park, but he doesn’t think have a say in it. There are millions of things the park could use, starting with baby swings.

Maniaci asks about trade off, Lusson/Tierney are existing homeowners and have several properties, and OKroley is a new homeowner, she asks Lusson why they should give you guys another house when you have three across the street.

Clear asks if that is relevant..

Lusson says he answered that question already.

646 E Gorham

Clear asks O’Kroley about hypothetical comment about “two for one”, and reopening the RFP for 646, he is suggesting a full proposal would you be interested?

OKroley says “of course” in walking through, 640 requires the addressing of the park and public nature of project appeals to her based on work she does. 646 in rental configuration just needs tender loving care, type of project is night and day. It was Ledell’s question that got her thinking, that could have advantages, its not two for one, its double down.

Clear asks would your interest extend for just 646, or just 640.

OKroley says 640 and potentially both.

704 E Gorham

Maniaci asks international house, who owns the house? She thinks the foundations doesn’t exist.

He says foundation is shelled in. It exists, has no money, they are also involved in Viking House at 711 E Gorham, they were looking at expansion, they wanted to buy the Jackson House from the Mullins and they were driving back and saw the ad and called it and moved very quickly. It would be owned by Midwest Restoration and Preservation, but then leased by Madison European American International Foundation.

Maniaci asks if it is it currently active?

He says yes/

Wallner asks if it would be rented.

He says rented to Europeans, maybe some aAericans. It will be a cultural and intellectual place and hopes to have a visiting faculty member and/or family. Cost of housing is one of barriers because they have to maintain a home in Europe and rental in Madison, we don’t offer enough at the Univeristy. It is a residential house, its smaller, more focused, they will be there for 99 years, Viking program is over 50 years old and we have funding for another 50 years, this would be synergistic with European house. That is the collaboration.

Walner asks about lectures.

He says fellows and grad students would live there, he hopes it is a cultural place and community center, the more families get involved the better the students get of an experience.

Maniaci asks about his comment that there would be no profit to his family, what is long term investment? You are offering a few different things.

He says the house will be restored, building has been altered over the years, it will not be returned to 1911, the family running the bed and breakfast put in $200K in the past and it was positive, and parks put money in, they did not let it go for 25 years (alders are mumbling, only for 7), it would cost $300 K to restore the house, 10% (50K) in contingency, city has option to take 5 year payment up front, or 10 year, half million plus $10K, they can minimally maintain once restored, this property would not be beat on, it should last 60 or 70 years and future generations will work on it.

Manaici asks if adding kitchen on first floor- yes period approratie but modern, basement is a disatser, would become a public meeting area – bridget says rec room – he says that public restrooms, they could rent it for weddings for others, wonderful setting, ideal situation, his farternity house looked at it

Maniaci asks about commercial kitchen?

He says that is a huge investment and not sure how appropriate, fact that is was ripped out and gone a blessing,

Maniaci asks about dining room wall water damage – 7 years of neglect, do you see having to remove that or is it restorable?

He hopes its restoreable, that would would remain and be restored, he has seen worse.

Manaici asks about things you would have included had you been given more time, would you have done more, would you be prepared to come to table to do that.

He says he doesn’t drill dry wells, to have inspector come in, unless it was one of the Prairie School Architects, they wouldn’t be worth it, appraisals are “made as instructed” – they are all over the map – 3rd appraisal is what they usually go with.

Maniaci asks about the contingency.

He says it can be expensive, it might have asbestos, that is mega bucks, don’t want to cross the bridge until committed to doing it, we have a lot of ideas, community is supportive, if committed to preservation, if asbestos needs to be done, it will get done.

Maniaci asks if do that before referendum, he says possibly.

9:30.

AFTER EVERYONE LEFT

20 more minutes of discussion – with only two people left in the room to listen. Luckily for you . . . on of them was a blogger. My notes are a little less detailed cuz I wasn’t expecting this much discussion.

First they discussed if the single scores or cumulative scores would be given to the committee. Maniaci only wanted cumulative scores given to the committee, staff says that they are all public records.

The talked about reopening the RFP for 646. They discussed if they could reopen it or if they had to reject the proposals and start over. Staff that it was best to start over, but they could have the same criteria and accept the same proposals. This might require council approval.

The talked about the referendum. Staff says the questions need to be ready by February.

Maniaci says that she is hearing from more people who are now interested in the houses. Some of the committee members asked where they were. Maniaci says that they have 0 or 1 proposal for each of the houses. She pushes hard to reopen. There is lots of discussion about when the referendum would be, and note that there will be three questions and there could be some that pass and some might not.

Wallner suggests that they could make an exception in the ordinance, he says there is “insanity” here, “this is nuts”.

Maniaci and Clear talk about changing the ordinance so they don’t have to go to referendum. Staff points out there are exceptions for the Zoo and Olbrich.

Clear says they are off topic and asks them to put reopening the RFP on the next agenda.

Maniaci asks if all this has to be done in open session or if they can go into closed session. Staff says that they can only go into closed session to talk about negotiating strategy or what a breaking point might be for price of the lease.

Clear asks them to notice it to go into closed session at the next meeting.

They want to meet again on the 8th, but that is when the zoning map discussion will be for parts of District 2 and 4 at the Senior Center. The talk about starting at 7:00, but there is grumbling about the Packer game that night. They change the meeting time to 4:30.

The committee is supposed to get the score sheets in by September 1 and are asked to do the electronically because there is less chance of mistakes.

The meeting ended at 9:50.