Lisa Link Peace Park Code of Conduct to get more scrutiny

Final decision postponed until September for a little re-write.

They combined two items (the contract for the BID to run the center and the code of conduct) and I couldn’t hear in the room due to a combination of microphones that didn’t work very well, noise going on in the room next door (kitchen) and bad acoustics. So, the public comment and questions are a brief summary of what people said.

PUBLIC COMMENT AND QUESTIONS
Mary Carbine from the State St. BID supports the code of conduct.

David Wallner asks what about the rest of the park?

Carbine says other ordinances apply to the rest of the park.

Eric Knepp agrees, city staff (police and parks) are going to review them to make sure they are adequate, that is a separate review and that was intentional, a public park is different in a number of ways than a building or facility. This applies to only the Visitors Center.

Mitch Freund who is one of the State Street Ambassadors and works with the volunteers supports the code of conduct.

Emanuel (Manny) Scarbrough asks if they have bi-lingual staff and volunteers?

Freund said it has come up and I think he said some are, but it was hard to hear his answer.

Scarbrough says that not only Spanish but other cultures coming to the city, this is a German town, he says it is important to think about other cultures and who can communicate with those individuals.

Diana Berg (hard to hear if that was her name?), she agrees that people shouldn’t be harassed and should follow the laws, but she is offended by the language about body odor, that is targeted to a certain segment of the community. She was born and raised here, she loves to shop on State St, she expects to be confronted with people who she may not like the smell of, why infringe on their first amendment rights if they are not harassing or causing trouble. Are you going to call the police to come down and say the smell is offending me? We need to draw the line here, this targets the homeless and you can’t tell me they aren’t, why doesn’t this code of conduct apply to Vilas? You can’t take every homeless person and put them someplace else if there is not harassment or they are not intoxicated.

Skidmore says it is consistent with other public buildings (Library and Senior Center) and it applies just to the visitors center not the rest of the park. He says the language is consistent and that is important.

Owner of Madison Sole shoe store, Jeanette Riechers, Secretary of the Chamber of Commerce supports the code of conduct. Says the park is going to be beautiful and they have to ensure that everyone has an opportunity to have a safe and positive experience. These policies are not new, the are existing polciies. She says this makes sure it is inclusionary.

Scarbrough asks what she considers to be inclusionary and how does this do it?

Riechers says everyone will be acting according to something written and all will be held to the same standard, more people will come to the park because they will not fear . . . .

Scarbrough cuts her off and thanks her for her comment and says he understands what she was saying.

Wallner asks about people who might pose a problem, how do they know about the code of conduct, even if they are a new visitor, if they have problems with alcohol or substance abuse how will they know, will it be posted on the wall?

Reichers looks to staff to answer.

Knepp says the exact method as to how it is presented hasn’t determined it yet, it will be posted in the area, there will be staff there, BID staff will have copies. He says that the intent is that all that but the most severe issues the intent is to educate first. The ambassadors and volunteers won’t be enforcing city laws, the city staff will do that. They won’t do anything beyond a verbal notification of bad behavior. He doens’t know how it will be posted (to be fair, this guy is the accountant at the parks department, so I”m not sure why he would!). He says that it will be there and be available.

Wallner asks if it will be provided to the homeless shelters.

Knepp says that is not unreasonable and that Captain Schauf and the police department will try to help get the message out. This is all about understanding what is acceptable and what is not.

Betty Chewning says that she is concerned about inconsistent application, not intentionally, but she hopes there are more clear criteria. For example, with body odor, some people have noses that are more sensitive. In some cultures prolonged staring may send a different message. She is concerned it it too subjective. (Again, hard to hear.)

Knepp says ideally it would be says it would be objective criteria. There are certain things that we want to avoid and we want it to apply equally to everyone, as much as possible. They want to want to remove arbitrary language, he says the library has found it successful on their side, senior center felt that code was subject to everyone, it has has helped. He’s not sure how to create more objective language.

Scarbrough says that this language is completely unacceptable. What if someone who is Chinese eats some spicy food and someone doesn’t like how they smell, they could be a professor at the University. Would they be asked to leave? Its the way you write it that is important, you can write it such that everyone understands what is going on, in terms of people who don’t bathe, that can be written in a way it is not so offensive.

Sandy Torklidson from Room of One’s Own says that no one should feel threatened. She has rules in her store, she has had people use her bathroom as a shower. She knows that there is a great need for a public restroom on State Street. This is a really small space and for the most part these rules are self evident about what would be appropriate behavior. It is clear this does not apply to the rest of the park.

Hawk Schenkel owns Hawk’s across the streets and he can tell them about the behaviors across the street. He says the code of conduct is good but might need some tweaks, its used at Library and Senior Center. He says that they aren’t really going to go after people who smell, this is about inappropriate behavior.

I spoke next. I don’t really know what I said, but here are my main points:
1. Process issues
a. The registration slip for the Parks Comission doesn’t have any space for people to answer the questions about lobbying.
b. Handing out a sub at the last minute, not having copies and not having it in legistar when there is free internet here is unfair to the public and people who are speaking about something they have not seen.
c. Combining two items and giving people 3 minutes to speak instead of 6 is unfair.
d. This room is awful to hear in.

2. On behavior criteria (Based on the new red-lined version)
a. Its clear who this is targeted at based on commissioner’s questions.
b. Who determines what is physically intimidating, I may not be intimidated by people who might intimidate you.
c. Are you serious about not allowing people in who are “under the influence of any alcoholic beverage”, this is State St. Can someone not have a glass of wine and then come ask for directions?
d. What is considered “disruptive, harassing or threatening” is going to vary from individuals.
e. What do you mean by “sexual contact”, does it mean no kissing or public displays of affection?
f. There may be some first amendment issues with the language about surveying and handing out information.
g. What is an “excessive” conversation, don’t we want this to be a place where people are happy and excited to be?
h. With the bodily hygiene, if I put on some patchouli and walk down to State St to by a pair of Birkenstocks, am I going to offend people? Probably. (Especially if I stopped by Parthanon’s for a gyro first!)
i. While everyone said this only applies to the Visitors Center, there is language in there that talks about “public park facilities” that might be confusing.

3. On the enforcement
a. Concerned there is too much discretion which will lead to unequal treatment
b. Where will the rules be available, how will people know.
c. There should be a review of the rules after they have been in place for a while.
d. Just cuz the library has it, doesn’t mean it is right, sorry I missed that discussion.

Bill Barker, the chair says he also has concerns about the last minute information.

Mike Verveer supports the second substitute on the first item and he talks a bit about the long process they have been through.

Verveer says this policy came from other facilities downtown and their experience. The Senior Center has banned 3 people as a results, the issues they were having have gone away. He says there is due process here, people can appeal and I didn’t hear how many people appealed if any. If adopted the Board of Park Commissioners will hear appeals of the policy. He thanks staff for quickly drafting the rules, they are in a hurry to get them in place before the center opens on Labor Day weekend. They realized that some of the issues are not germane to a visitors center, but apply to a library. He thanks me for my blog and bringing up the issues in that post. They simply changed “library” to “visitors center” and realized that many of these are germane to library not visitors center. These rules won’t go to the council, city attorney’s office has vetted them, he feels comfortable supporting them tonight. He appreciates the recommendation to review them on a regular basis, he’d like it done within 6 months so they can analyze how it is going. Parks staff won’t be there regularly, BID ambassadors and volunteers will be. It’s not fair to ask ambassadors, volunteers and seniors to deal with issues with no rules in place, the volunteers will not enforce, but city staff, park rangers, mall concourse staff and police will. Its unfair to not expect standards in the building, its a small building, issues are real, he is not a sponsor of the code of conduct because it won’t go to council, but he worked on Peace Park for over a decade and he thinks it is tragic there is a limited use of the park. He thinks the standards are fair. He acknowledges the big crowd for fruits and nuts, but he asks the not to refer to August and he wants them to consider amendments tonight.

Scarbrough says not had time to look at code of conduct and prefers not to approve a document and then re-adjust. We see problems with it, we should go back and work on it and we have until September, there is no rush, let’s do it right before we open, when we open, we can open with good document so everyone understands what is expected of them. He says staff did a good job with what they had and he’s not blaming them, but often if you are not one of the individuals or in a certain area, you don’t see what they see. He is concerned this is for the building and there is no continuity on rules from the park to the building. We have ordinances for the park, sure some stuff in the building is different, but they need continuity. If people feel intimidated outside, but not inside, they will never come in the building, they need to take that all into consideration.

There was one last speaker who was called earlier but because you couldn’t hear, I think she missed it. Her name was Celine but I missed the last name. She says people come to Madison because of State St. We should sanitize it so much its like everywhere else. We don’t want people to be scared, but some of the rules go too far. Think about the stores on State St and people drinking on the street being loud and boisterous and then there is a little island and people won’t understand why the rules are different there. There are rules that it is understood that you follow in any city and she doesn’t want the city dictating it to her. Madison is becoming too elitist. Why are we targeting homeless drinking on State St, what about everyone else. We are zeroing in on people who are homeless. They can’t help it they smell. She expects in a city someone will come up and ask her for change, and she can say yes or no. They took out the Badger Bus station because they don’t want to see these people. Overture Center wants people in a certain setting and people don’t all fall into that category.

Another registrant registered against and made a comment about the offensive body odor criteria.

DISCUSSION
They move to separate the two items and they vote on the contract first and that passes unanimously.

Wallner moves to refer to the September meeting. He says he appreciates that they want closure but they just got the document and there were good points made and they need more time. They are aware of the issues here, they got an earful from some of the users last fall who claimed that didn’t want changes and that it would impact their use of the park. There were similar issues witht the Brittingham park with the difficult situation there, and we made big progress at Brittingham.

Scarbrough says also in Vilas.

Wallner says that required changes in procedure, this is a tough one, Scarbrough raises a good point, about behaviors that are different in park and in building. The library and Senior Center are different, does this code actually get people to think about behaviors in park, that is where big problems have been, they have made progress, congrats on this, it’s a tough one, they have banned people at library, its very rare, but people have had right to appeal. I can’t hear what else he says, but he says staff says makes a big difference.

Paul Skidmore doesn’t agree with referral, this is consistent with other policies, no one can hear and they tell them that. Skidmore asks where the mics are and points out they are way away from where he is. He doesn’t agree with referral, they have the information necessary, the code of conduct is consistent with city policy. Is it perfect? No. None of our city policies are. This is how we need to run our facilities, this isn’t meant to include the park, he would be really against it applying these rules to the park, they should vote down referral and vote to implement it, all you are doing is delaying the inevitable.

Madelyn Leopold says she supports referral. The message that this volume and detail of rules sends is not the image of what Madison is all about. At the parks she sees a handful of things she can’t do and she understands them. She says that in September she’d like to see a much reduced code of conduct and that there are a few things that are identifiable. People spend hours at the library and Senior Center, that is different than here, she supports referral but hopes to have a revised policy to look at in September.

Wallner says appreciates what Skidmore said, but we each think about changes he would like to make and get them to staff.

The motion to refer passes with only Skidmore voting no.

NEW DOCUMENT
Changes to the new red-lined version of the document include:
– Changing the language about eating
– Adding something about littering
– Takes out requirement about moving furniture and putting your feet up on it.
– Takes out language about bringing more than 2 bags into the building
– Changing language about leaving personal items there
– Takes out language about changing clothes in the bathroom
– Takes out language about taking materials into the bathroom
– Takes out language about the internet.

So, stay tuned in September.