Ok, all we had in part two was presentations by Dunn and the neighborhood and now we will get to the 61 speakers.
During the recess might be a good time to explain that I might be missing a bit more than usual, but I’m doing ok keeping up.
He says he’s alternating between pro and con. [EXCEPT THERE EVERYONE IS PRO OR CON 2 AND THE OPPOSITE ON THE OTHER MATTER]. They are up to 78 speakers.
Clear suggests that they call 3 or 4 in advance, Mayor says that is what they are doing.
PUBLIC TESIMONY, REALLY NOW
They applaud Hammes and know many support, but voted 6 – 1 to deny, why? Ordinance required them to do so. He talks about gross volume, the ordinance says shall, their action was mandatory. The first rejection was small, this one is larger, even with NGL in the calculation, the commission found it could not support. NGL should be sued to support a larger building. The common council in 1966 unanimously created this ordinance this way. Some thing we should look beyond the ordinance. Consider what would happen if commissioners started ignoring the laws they are supposed to uphold. They also passed an ordinance that 850,000 cubic feet would be ok, that’s twice the size of what is there. If Dunn had come to them in the beginning they could have told him that. A smaller project would be ok and its ok if its silver or bronze instead of gold that is ok. Project should fit the site, not the bankroll. Landmarks did their job, followed the law, council should do the same.
Bob Harlan – worked for the packers, reminds him of redoing Lambeau Feild. He talks about the benefits of the stadium. He talks about where teams get their revenue. [WHY IS THIS RELEVANT?] He talks about how they did the project like they said, making more money now. 12th in league in revenue. They say if they didn’t redo the stadium they would be 31st. Many people have come to see the stadium and Bob Dunn has been able to work with other teams. Bob Dunn made this happen. Stadium is also a big asset to Green Bay. Madison is a beautiful city, they enhanced Green Bay with the stadium, you can do the same with Edgewater.
Maniaci wants to make sure people know they will be asking questions of every 10 speakers.
Fred Mohs says last guy wasn’t on point, but it reminded him of a story. He competed for a project in 1970s, but there was another guy who had a scratchy drawings, Vince Lombardi supported him and they wondered how that would work. but the committee members fell for it. He says he talked about the pier, he talked to DNR and they say it can’t be done. They talk about the PUDs, the only PUDs in Mansion Hill are three, Mansion Hill Inn is one because of the use of the building as a Bed and Breakfast/Hotel. The Quisling was not torn down as some felt because it was inferior, it was to enlarge the building, it wasn’t about the condition of the building. He was impressed with Stuart Levitan’s description of what happened at Landmarks, its important because unprecedented public relations here going on for almost 2 years, heavy professional in house staff and hired people to get people to email. 30 second warning. Building the building is not a civic emergency. What Stuart did do was show you something can happen here, we would welcome this go back to Landmarks. Cut off.
Pat Richter, says he was an eastsider, talks about change in Madison over time, talks about being able to park car on Gorham when it was a two way street. 50 years ago heard about Monona Terrace. Travels all over, did great things for their cities, but nothing compares to Madison. Went to UW cuz wanted to stay in Madison, and revitalize athletics. He says the pride is the collateral. Bob Dunn is a great guy. His legacy will rise and fall on this project, no greater motivation than the fact that you put yourself on the line with the community, that ensure the success of the project.
Joe Lusson asks why so many rules have been tossed aside. Unfortunate collision of lack of leadership. No preservation planner. He says temporary jobs are not enough of a reason to jettison our ideals. We only have one daily newspaper, the wrong paper is still being delivered daily, they work for the powers that be not the average citizen. The city is not in a good spot, you are under intense pressure to approve a must have. Why break the rules for the privileged, overturn Landmarks on unrelated benefits. If disregard historic district, who will take it seriously. They are asking to violate TIF policies, and money form TIf should go to the schools. Finally the public plaza will be for the hotel guests. Won’t be able to dine on the pier. Shouldn’t approve to make it go away, the challenge here is to turn it down, Madison will be fine without it. Since when did one guys vision of Madison become pressing, don’t undermine civic ideals, We can do better than this.
Mark Bugher, thanks everyone, supports the project, for downtown economic development. Beyond Monona Terrace, no project in downtown has had more input etc than any other project. All that input has improved the project. The project is striking, consistent with what we expect and iconic for the city. Design is extraordinary. TIF is important, but lsot in the discussion is the equity provided. The TIF is a tool for economic development, not a Madison law, its a State law. One of only economic development tools, we ought to take advantage of it as long as it makes sense. When first recreated it was an urban renewal law to create jobs in urban areas, now building incubators for research parks to employ resident. TIF policy should evolve. His day to day job is job creation, highly educated people who contribute to economy of Madison. To attract smart people we need to create environment that will make them come here, entertainment and cultural arts is very important and that is why this project is important.
[BRUER M.I.A.]
Gene Devitt says that the tower has been moved, the base is still in the same place, just the upper stories have been moved. He took a tour of the building, it is a lot of work. He helps people renovate houses and he says if you can’t do it, don’t buy it. He says he was around during the Quisling, he says there was a house in it, the issue was that house. There is a third sister, the Quisling towers, the tuckpointing is the problem. Quisling was going to be a 12 story tower, said they couldn’t do it smaller, but lo and behold, it was done. Talks about Scott Lewis project. He holds up picture of Verex, says these are not the types of buildings they want built. He says noise will be a problem. You are in charge of protecting us through the building code. Time is up.
John Burke, family owns Trek Bicycle Company, he’s the president, family been in Madison a long time, cares about Madison. Supports Edgewater cuz its a positive for Trek, they bring 2,000 customers for a convention, the current hotel facilities don’t do a good job of taking care of our customers, this will help our convention do better and keep us coming back. This brings a historic building to life. Doesn’t want to put customers on the beltline. He thinks this is good for the neighborhood, they bought the Mansion Hill Inn and worked on it, the Edgewater is also historic and this project will bring the Edgewater to life. This is a positive for the Mansion Hill District. He says he is thinking about all the people not here tonight, they will be able to use the park to access the lake, just like they do at Lake Monona. He says this is a historic vote so he talks about Abraham Lincoln and listened to someone, his aide asked if the sermon was excellent, Lincoln was said i was well done, but he didn’t ask us to do something great. He lists of buildings he thinks are great. 30 second warning. This decision will impact Madison 30 – 50 years, asks them to do something great tonight.
Elizabeth Kerwin – Doesn’t own a big company, mom who lives in University Heights, this is an amazing project, just don’t think it is worth what it will cost. Not just monetarily, but respects Landmarks and to thumb nose at neighborhood is insulting on so many levels. As great as it is for people to come form other cities to talk about this its not enough, sure developer is a great guy, doesn’t have anything to do with the situation, would love to have taxpayers bail me out of a tough business decision or tuckpoint my house, to call mansion hill blighted is a joke.
Al Fish representing UW, says UW is a small city in an of itself, they have 4M visitors a year come there, those visitors need a place to stay, Edgewater has been a great location, this will be good for them. Its hard to develop downtown, land is expensive, have to build tall buildings and add density. When built we built with backs to the lake, they were a mess 100 years ago. He says the reason Memorial Union is succesful cuz you can go visit the lakes, its important to turn around and embrace the lake.
QUESTIONS FOR 10 SPEAKERS
Maniaci asks if they should go by speaker.
Mayor says go quickly.
Maniaci asks Mohs, she asks about the steering committee process, are you happy with the way the committee was created and did you feel it was represented with the neighborhood.
Mohs says yes on both counts.
Manaici says they were chosen by members of Mansion Hill and CNI.
Mohs says no.
Maniaci says enlighten me.
Mohs says that first heard about this when Mario Mendoza was going around putting this on the fast track. He met with Dunn, told him that they couldn’t build the building in the right of way. He thought that was the end of it. Then meeting with Mayor, Gene Devitt and Ledell Zellers are Mansion Hill Neighborhood elected to represent them. You all know sad story of representation that they were for it, they met with Bob Dunn at Edgwater. Devitt put out 2300 fliers, the met at the Edgewater, Dunn did not provide a site plan, we got a power poitn of ball parks he built and stairs in Europe and restaurants.
Maniaci interupts.
Mohs says he said he would write his own zoning code. They asked those who wanted to get together to go to Kennedy Manor.
Maniaci asks about Mansion Hill March 2008 document that they were chosen by Mansion Hill reps and report to Mansion Hill and CNI.
Mohs says they met after the meeting and they decided they needed a steering committee and they decided to ask for volunteers.
Manaici asked who would be acceptable and what interests they should have.
Mohs said that they were interested, some were interested in historic preservation.
Maniaci asks if they had people from commercial buildings, other property owners and stakeholders, greek community,
Mohs says the coop.
Maniaci asks what happened to him, he’s no longer on the committee, did you work to replace him.
Mohs says that is private issues for Sherman Hackbarth, as far as he is concerned he is on the committee.
Mohs says they have a representative from Langdon.
Maniaci is done.
Rummel asks Levitan, what happened between the two projects.
Levitan says that the impact on the visually related area, hard to explain in words not pictures. The area is now based on underground parking area. The recalculated area brings in NGL, staff drew visually related area to include NGL, based on parking but it doesn’t include the tower itself. Building is larger, pedestal is not moved. Building is 250,000 cubic feet larger.
I missed a question and part of the explanation. Levitan talks about where the center of the 200 feet is calculated.
Rummel says on a common sense level people say look what is near by.
Levitan says that ordinance was created to prevent NGL but the Edgewater is much larger, they did use NGL to some extent in the calculation.
Rummel asks about the height.
Levitan said that they looked at cubic feet not height.
Rummel asks about letter from Draeger at the state.
Levitan says that he asked Dunn during the break about the things they didn’t hear about, Dunn said that they didn’t want to hear about it. They didn’t hear anything about the condition of the building and that the State Historic preservation office can’t do what we wanted. He said that historic preservation has to be done to standards and they can’t do it in this case, so that is problematic.
Verveer says thanks for comments. Levitan says thanks for reappointment tonight.
Verveer asks him to elaborate on the comments from the state. He defers to Erika, he is the cultural historian.
Verveer asks about his change in his vote. Why when we had this decision before us last December it was 5-2 and now its 6-1.
Levitan says that the voted against the certificate last time, he changed his vote on the variance, since he is here representing the commission and the variance is not before you so it might not be appropriate. He says in short he decided to act like a Landmarks commissioner and not a recovering politician.
Verveer asks about the appeal language since you are an attorney. Elaborate further on your legal opinion about how much leeway the council has with this langauge.
Levitan says not comfortable answering that, he’s here to talk about how they voted.
Verveer asks about the fate of the Mansion Hill historic district if we don’t uphold the decision.
Levitan says its not just this district if several other. If overturned, if you are telling us we erred, not sure what it would mean, couldn’t be good, because it would mean we did something wrong and if we applied the ordinance erroneously and the gross volume is compatible, then next time it comes up I’d use your standards instead of the one’s we felt were appropriate.
Bidar-Sielaff thanks him and commission, this was difficult politically and on the commission. Do you think this is subject is interpretation, is it clear in definition of gross volume.
Levitan says there are inconsistencies in appeal language. Gross volume in visually related is simple, its common sense easily understood concept. don’t need various calculations.
Bidar-Sielaff asks if he needs different metrics.
Levitan says that you need to measure, gross volume is easily understood as gross volume, don’t need various metrics.
Bidars Sielaff asks if the ordinance can be understood.
Levitan says most people would understood square, or more appropriately cubic feet.
Bidar-Sielaff sasy the interpretation can be subjective, he agrees.
Bidar Sielaff asks about the letter from state and who has authority.
Levitan says that no one can ensure compliance with Secretary of Interior standards.
missed some.
Lauren Cnare asks about 850,000 cubic feet decisions.
Levitan says it was based on Kennedy Manor and NGL.
Cnare says the number feels like a dartboard, should there be a standard or is that just the sense on this project.
Levitan says that he chose the number and commissioners agreed that this was compatible.
Cnare says she thinks we will look at ordinance.
Levitan says that they are starting to do that.
Cnare asks if they should have a formula.
Levitan says it would be a bright line, but not sure it is right.
Steve King says their decision is not based on the standards you used correct.
Levitan says that city attorney has different standards.
King asks why we are asking you these questions, when we are trying a different case, its 11:00 and if we keep talking about Landmarks we will be her forever.
Shiva Bidar-Sielaff said something.
Mayor thanks him for his comments.
Bidar-Sielaff is concerned about the overturning of the landmarks and what it means for historic districts. They argue back and forth. Bidar-Sielaff thinks there is a subjective decision. Levitan says that if you overturn us he doesn’t’ know what it means.
Mayor says won’t stop at 10, will stop at 26.
Clear is ordering pizza, wants show of hands who is interested. Tells members of the public they can participate.
Scott Thornton represents Marquette Neighborhood, missed a bunch. Says project was difficult in many ways. He talks about them having historic districts. He says the building doesn’t fit. Hardship has not been proven. City does not embrace historic districts, they are untapped resources, this project doesn’t fit in any plans, private citizens being attacked, political repurcussions, overwhelming pr campaign, plan commission moved project along, as did UDC with tie votes, TIF tied at Board of Estimates with Mayor breaking the tie, only one vote on landmarks, he quotes Tim Bruers comments saying we needed to follow the laws talkign about the parking restrictions, shouldn’t the Edgewater get the same respect as a parking lot.
[I REALLY DID A BAD JOB ON HIS COMMENTS, MY APOLOGIES AS THE COMMENTS WERE VERY GOOD]
Jim Imhoff, First Weber and Vice Chair of Chamber, representing Chamber, raised in construction business. Why supporting Edgewater, no financial interest in the project, its a wonderful project, it will bring back reinvestment in the downtown and fortify what already done with Monona Terrace. The area can be a great area, says that investment will follow the project. He asks if their project fails what will it mean for future projects and tax payers. Vote for it, time to move on, in 20 or 30 years will see you made a wonderful decision.
Pat Sheldon, she is here representing Kenneth Clark. He is former Director of City of Madison Planning Department (1959 – 1965). He has been following the project and is concerned that there are a number of policies, ordinances and plans that the city has revoked and changed just for the project. He was involved in 1965. TIF was not supposed to be used, condos weren’t supposed to be built and they were supposed to respect the 10 foot set back. Ordinances are on the books for a reason, he is disappointed to see the key terms of the 1965 street vacation ordinance should be revoked and a long list of other time-tested city policies and plans as well. These changes are not wise and far=sighted nor good public policy. Such actions jeopardize the rule of law and should not be changed so quickly and easily.
Brett Hulsey, on Dane County Board and Lakes and water shed, support the project, its smart growth, good jobs, clean water and lake access, need rooms, traffic and air pollution. He worked at sierra Club on sprawl and worked all over. He says if they don’t build up they build out. If don’t build it here it will be built somewhere else. His son did a concert at the Edgewater, the place needs some work, frustrating to walk about to edge of bar and not be able to enjoy the lake. From a clean water point of view, if built in Middleton there would be more run off and water pollution. On the jobs issue, there was a lot of talk about PLA, as a union president, if the workers say its ok, I go with the workers, cuz if have a PLA doesn’t mean anything if no project. On traffic, don’t need to drive to downtown locaiton. Finally, climate change, Wisconsin is 12th worst on business climate, people are doing backflips to do this project, you can send important message that the way to get jobs is to work with people that build things.
[CAN YOU SAY SELL OUT!!!]
[BRIDGET IS PASSING AROUND A PAPER ASKING PEOPLE WHAT PIZZA THEY WANT, INSTEAD OF LISTENING TO SPEAKERS.]
Margaret Bergamini – first speaker to go home.
Scott Faulkner has run hotel for 35 years, third generation, his son now working there. Have been approached by many developers over the years. Bob Dunn is the man to do the job. His parents created the legend that this place is, Bob Dunn can make that happen. When they started the project didn’t anticipate the hornet’s next and the personal attacks, but did this to accomplish one thing, to carry the legacy on. Family wants to thank everyone and appreciates, please vote to approve the project.
Bob Klebba, says the reason we are here is because someone chose not to maintain the project, do we let them off the hook or give them $16M and build a new tower, do we build a new hotel, the plaza with $16M requested will only serve to improve value of the new development. What happens to old Edgeater, the only way to save it is to build a whole new project. It doesnt’ justify $16M, the tower proposed is in a R6H parcel that doesn’t belong to the development project, he has no hardship. Missed a bit. Drawing are misleading, don’t see how impacts the lakes. Landmarks voted it down, only one person voted against, don’t know why, Missed some more. If you overturn Landmarks decision, you should think long and hard about what respoect you have for the ordinances and laws of the city, we have a landmarks ordinance for a reason and before we throw out the decision made respecting the oridnance, think hard. Reject the Landmarks appeal and TIF funding.
Harvey Wendell – missed it all, needed a break.
Adam Plotkin, as resident of the Mansion Hill, this doesn’t fit with height and mass. Concerned about the process. Misrepresentations have been made, deliberate inaccuracies have been presented in the plans, developer intentionally submitted new material at each meeting, $16M keeps coming back for $16M even when the project costs go down. There has been little time to react to materials, especially on TIF. The job creation is 40K per job created, if using better numbers from experts, it is 80K. Lambeau Field is not comparable to this. Long line of broken promises, abandonment of 1965 ordinance and landmarks ordinance. In 1965 neighbors vacated the street end and it came with many promises, tonight you are breaking those promises. You are being asked to compare to buildings that were cause of the landmarks ordinance in the first place. He talks about the Monona Terrace train station and January day and walking to the Edgewater. Reject the project, vote for citizens over the developer, no one thinks Edgewater is great, but look past the glitz and glammor and vote against the project.
[MY FINGERS ARE GETTING TIRED, I’M GOING TO GET A LITTLE BRIEFER FOR A BIT]
George Austin, spoke at plan commission, here in his own interest. Says its important for economic development and for historic district. Need to balance all the competing interests. This is a remarkable project. He says the comprehensive plan doesn’t mean every project should meet all objectives, council can conclude it meets the height restriction of Langdon Street. He also talks about the precedence of incompatible projects popping up in historic districts, he doesn’t think that will happen. He talks about PUDs. He talks about the requirements they have to look at in the development. He says the plan commission had extensive consideration. This project is in the public interest. The UDC, Plan and Landmarks commission resulted in changes, building of lower mass and height woudl not work economically.
Fae Dremock, when politicians and developers promise you better jobs, better jobs, better wages and benefits that will trickle down, you are going to get your hand bitten off at the elbow, she learned that from being a daughter of coal miner and growing up in an neighborhood of trades people. She talked about promises, public access only one hour a day, can’t watch the fireworks, paying 16M to limit to the public access, already paid for it by giving them the land. Broken promises of TIF being paid and process. TIF will take a long time to repay. Hopes everyone is here to make comments on contracts to make sure local suppliers and union jobs. this is a boondoggle. If you support the project, don’t’ approve the TIF. Off camera at the door three police officer controlling access to the meeting, we dont’ need that, its a waste of police resources. Mayor Dave, you have called us ideologues and taken people off committees and you should not denigrate people who care about the city and who volunteer their time.
Missed woman’s name, she talks about her 6 condo building that supports it, they look forward to dining opportunities. She owns Bell Laboratories, they bring lots of people to Madison, people want to see the lake and be on the lake and hopes this project enhances Madison, it will enhance our properties, she urges them to vote for Edgewater.
Chris Culver, in support, lives in Mansion Hill, some say building is too tall, he thinks it should be taller, thinks it should have TIF, he thinks that the public space will be beautiful, doesn’t think it will block the view. Public space will be larger than Memorial Union. After peel away what you like and dislike. Missed the rest.
Julie Aulik, also missed her comments, needed a break, its getting harder to catch it all.
David Waugh lives in district 2, do not overturn Landmarks decision, this should not be a political issue, follow the letter and intent of the law. If developer doesn’t own that land and the property is in bad shape, shouldn’t that lower the value of the property. He quotes Schumacher, this wouldn’t get through any committees without the public space, but then they are asking us to pay for it. If it was just the tower, it wouldn’t get this attention. Is this our priority right now, to build a luxury hotel. He reads headlines of other downtwon hotel that invested their own money and doing well, is it fair to pump taxpayer money into competitor. He’s a small business owner, wouldn’t want tax dollars pumped into his competitors. He would prefer to spend it on our future and our schools, close the district.
Steve Lawrence, not here with any organization, friends texting him to go to the bars, lives in the neighborhood, he sick and tired of people who represent him and his neighborhood. He thinks they should here for residents. Also finals over and time on his hands. One of favorite thing about city is public spaces, bike paths, union terrace, state st and he supports the Edgewater. Would be great to run up Wisconsin Avenue and not see what is there. Wants to watch Rhythm and Booms there [ONLY IF HE PAYS TO BE THERE] He says it is deceptive to have Fred Mohs represent the neighborhoods, its hard to get involved because city government is boring. He thinks this is good for city and good morning. It’s 12:01.
Bidar-Sielaff says happy birthday Verveer.
Craig Argyll, can’t hear . . . talks about PUD, thinks project meets the criteria of the ordinance, not an expert, support to have downtown prosper, build it and they will come, we need some stimulus in economy, civic pride and spirit. Please don’t assume small group of opponents represent us all.
Phil Salkin representing Realtors, Mayor Dave says you can be progressive and pro-business. You should confirm that, your civic leaders have done it, all but one committee and labor all confirms that. This will help real estate values. This will be an economic benefit to the community. to deny is to send a message to support old steroetypes that you have tried hard to put to bed. He talks about his credentials in historic preservation. He says his concern is a resource, if you pass this tonight, the Mansion Hill district will not be decertified. This project will contribute to the restoration of the youngest block. Landmark buildings will not be decertified, Edgewater will not become non-contributing. this will lead to improvement of the neighborhood. TIF is one of few tools Wisconsin has given you for economic development. You have done well with TIF, you have the tool, use it. Mayor was right.
Carl Landness, skipped it . . . sorry, its 12:10 and its time for break soon.
Judy Karofsky, also skipped it . . .
[PIZZA IS HERE, PEOPLE ARE LEAVING THE ROOM]
Clear announces it is here, basket for contributions, no break.
John Martens, representing Mansion Hill Steering Committee. Served on ZBA, designed and built Madison Candy Company.
Mayor interupts with announcement that 14 have to stay int he room they all can’t go get pizza.
Missed some of his comments. Stairway not as grand as purports, managment agreements restricts access to plaza, historic restoration is just a remodel. There is a big disconnect. Looks at developers hyperbole, 100 jobs is 400, pier not permitted by DNR, rendering not accurate, project shatters land use and laws in the district, too tall, violates 1965 ordinance, project is a massive commercial speculation in a residential historic district, what zoning code is designed to prevent. This has divided oru city, made a mockery of land use and processes are an exercise in human endurance. Issue isn’t about a handful of jobs or gambling with scarce public funds, reelections, resources to generate emails, this is about upholding laws and land use policy. As a committee member, he has been in their shoes, he has been banned form a well known birthday bar, been lobbied, for voting to uphold the law. You should do it too . . . missed some.
Jennifer Alexander
– represents Chamber of Commerce
– supports it for jobs
– will grow the tax base
– will restore city landmarks
– support University
– access to the lake
– be convention and destination place
– TIF is imporant, good tool, without it it won’t happen
– tonights votes are historic
Paul Shoenenman
– would like to support the project, but can’t
– supports vibrant downtowns
– degree in landscape architecture
– feels the project is too big, breaks too many ordinances, laws are being bent and disregarded
– thinks he is becoming a yes person, but not when giving away some of the best things about madison, height limit, lakes, etc, when we chip away at public good, that is when only here for people with money.
– looking at buying a house, two options, one in Madison, one outside Madison, the one in Madison is in a commercial district, outside of Madison is residential.
– Loves the city, but feels himself going where protected by zoning, don’t want more commercial property where they can build more storage units in my block.
– You are here to uphold the law, protect people’s rights.
– Been disturbed by the tone of how the project has been presented, two public hearings at the same time last week, huge PR, blind faith and support by city officials.
– Missed some, where he called the Mayor on the carpet
– Missed more
– Says Bridget Maniaci did not ask neighborhood to the meetings.
Steve Brown
– Long ties to Madison, owns 3 buildings taller than the proposal before you in 3 blocks
– Neighborhood is 93% rental
– Sees tremendous benefits, jobs, tax base, amenities, access to lake, improvements of facade, also improve ability to attract permanent residents and improve property values
– Rents to 500 students, many of his residents are excited, another place to socialize, public space on the lake, this is a dramatic new vision for north end of street where vibrant student community
– fortunate to have someone who will invest
James Steakley
– 33 years in Madison, Isthmus, President of James Madison Park, voted unanimously in opposition to the development, heard all the reasons already.
26 speakers left
QUESTIONS OF SPEAKERS
Verveer asks Adam Plotkin, president of CNI, what is CNI?
Plotkin says its Blair to Regent and lake to lake and have 300 active members and put on lots of programs.
Verveer asks question about the Mansion Hill Steering Committee, how does it operate to review development proposals.
Plotkin says they have a development protocol. Neighborhood group led by neighborhood group, development group tackles larger organization projects, district takes lead in forming steering committee, ask anyone interested to participate as much as possible, we are volunteer based, we all have day jobs.
Verveer asks how CNI Executive Council went on record and had a motion giving full weight and support of Mansion Hill.
Plotkin says yes, may have been 2008.
Verveer wants colleguse to be reassured that so called Mansion Hill Steering Committee is arm of organizationa and has full weight and support.
He says yes, our protocols work well, we support the committee, they have good outcomes with their protocol. He says that developer when they decided they didn’t care for the answers we gave and did an end run and formed a neighborhood coalition, and as a resident I’m not invited to participate.
Pham-Remmele passes.
Maniaci asks Plotkin, who is your membership.
Plotkin says anyone who pays the dues.
Maniaci asks if divide between voting members.
Plotkin says that voting members are elected.
Lots of back and forth, Bridget thinks only residents of the neighborhood can vote, not propeorty owners, people who have vested interest in the area, who she represents that there is a divide. Adam says that if you are a dues paying member you can vote.
Maniaci asks about choosing of Steering Committee, was it the way you usually operate, what was the process.
Plotkins says yes and in 2008 at the Edgewater there was a meeting and anyone there could come to Kennedy Manor could come and participate.
Maniaci asked if they tried to outreach.
Plotkin says tremendous outreach but can’t compete with full time staff.
Maniaci says her first meeting she saw that the people who make up the committee has transtitions.
Plotkin says over 2 years you can’t keep all the members.
Manaici asks if people have changed.
Plotkin says that they may have lost one and added a few, anyone who could participate was invited.
Maniaci presses about why membership changed, Susanne Voeltz is no longer on the document.
Plotkin doesn’t know, reiterates it is a volunteer group.
Rummel asks John Martens, explain efforts about efforts on historic preservation, the Candy Company was a big deal in our neighborhood. That building had structural issues.
Martens says brick building with many of the maladies that were described by Dunn, needed tuck pointing, structural damage to timbers, not handicpa accessible, needed new heating and cooling, falling short on almost every code, not a big deal to fix it up, depends on how hard you try. Person with right of first refusal, needed more city assistance, he tried to bargain for parking and city refused so let go of option, Martens has second option, offered to buy me out for 100K, asked why turned it down, couldn’t do it for the price, now he could do it by finding another way to do it. Seriously, with contemporary construction methods many ways to deal with these things. Maybe Dunn is using gold foils for paper barrier, these things can be done. No idea why this project takes so much money.
Maniaci asks Harvey Wendel, Judy Bell and Judy Karofsky, but only Karofsky still here, were you as a neighborhood resident approached to be a neighborhood steering committee. She isn’t a dues paying member.
Maniaci asks Scott Faulkner about state of hotel, have you had estimates done to address the moisture issues.
Faulkner says been a problem for 25 years, did some tuck pointing, tried to seal it up, put sealant on it, they have explained the true fix is the vapor barrier. The building makes it own joints at times and cracks, some areas are worse than others.
Maniaci says that if not this developer another will do it, what makes other redevelopment unpopular.
Faulkner says the people, not serious about interest, want to engage you but jsut fishing, Bob has called me, we talked 3 or 4 times and I turned him down 3 or 4 times and looking at work he has done, he has been succesful, also getting up in age so this is an exit strategy, he was in the right place at the right time.
Maniaci says what happens if this doesn’t go through.
Faulkner says that he would let Dunn answer that, we have a contract.
Maniaci asks Julie Aulik about hardship and how she came to the standards and the physical environment standards. What is it about the environment that lays out the case.
Aulik says on hardship, the provision is used in case of owner who gets themselves into the project and belatedly realizes they need a COA and then finds out they can’t stop the project. Missed some. She says on the criteria at hand, her only encouragement to Landmarks and you is to take the first criterion, don’t look at gross volume but whole sentence. There has been an over-emphasis on gross volume and the analysis would benefit from broader look, do a qualitative assessment of volume.
