As best I can do without editing or even re-reading.
Audio part 1 – the portion before the police policy committee discussion.
Audio part 2 – the police policy committee discussion
Suspension of the Rules
Done, to take things out of order and introduce resolutions and ordinances that are not on the agenda. Unanimous voice vote as usual.
Too much noise in the hallway, Mayor asks the staff to shut the door.
Honoring Resolution
#1 – They move to recognize Milele Chikasa Anana and Umoja Magazine celebrating its 25th year. Mayor reads the resolution. The mayor invites an amendment to the resolved clause to have it read “Madison Common Council and Mayor”, adding the Common Council. Motion passes to amend. No one is there to receive the award and the mayor says he will present it next week at the art opening.
#2 – This is the honoring of community leaders after the Madison Police shot and killed Tony Robinson. They move to place it on file.
Early public comments and stalling til public hearings
Scott Watson on item 38 – in support.
David Branson on item 32 support not wishing to speak.
Kristin Forde on 47, opposing, not wishing to speak.
Nick LIvinston on 47, opposing, not wishing to speak.
People are still registering, so they can’t move on.
Steve King makes an announcement about a community survey on health that the hospitals and others are doing, there is a week left on the survey.
Marsha Rummel moves referral of the one item on Gorman and Company while they are waiting, it is referred to the Board of Estimates.
They have 5 minutes to wait and they are trying to find things to do.
Item #16, vacation time for the next mayor. DeMarb moves to adopt. Clear makes an amendment, moves a substitute, he says this clarifies that it doesn’t apply to this mayor but the one that takes office in 2019.
Bidar wishes Mike Verveer happy birthday. She offers that they can sing, mayor says no.
They take up item #17, Porchlight funding for Lien Road, Samba Baldeh wants to refer it to the next meeting. Sheri Carter discloses she is President of Porchlight Board of Directors and recuses herself. Matt Phair asks O’Keefe if there is a timeline issue and if the applicant has any input. Jim O’Keefe says that the funding is contingent on the conditional use permit, he doesn’t think there is an objection by Porchlight to the referral. There is a community meeting. Baldeh says he talked with Porchlight and they did not object..
Consent Agenda
Public Hearing items are 3 – 9
Items 18 and 30 are approved with 15 votes
Items 33 and 34 parks recommends adoption. 35 parks recommends to confirm.
Items 53 – 55 the plan commission recommends adoption.
Items separated for discussion are items 32 (Judge Doyle Square) and 47 (police policy committee). Kemble also separates item 21 (planner in the community development committee).
All that passes, as noted.
Public Hearings
Item 3 passes unanimously without discussion – 2 registrations in support, Brian Munson and Jeff Rosenberg (the developers)
Item 4 passes unanimously without discussion.
Item 5 passes, granted with conditions, unanimous without discussion.
Item 6, 7 pass unanimously without discussion, 7 is under suspension of the rules.
Item 8 has a registration from 2 people supporting and available to answer questions (i.e. the developers), item 9 has no registrations. Both items pass without discussion. A late breaking supporter registers on 9. They pass without discussion, unanimously.
They move to take item 21, then 47, then 32.
Community Development Planner – item 21
Rebecca Kemble asks if the person filling the position will be working on Neighborhood Centers. Jim O’Keefe says that this will be their job 1. This was in the budget for that specifically. Kemble says that some neighborhood centers are waiting for this, what is the timeline. O’Keefe says they have started collecting data for this work, it will probably be a month or two before someone is on board, a week or two before they get acclimated. They wondered if the plan might be presented in states – existing center needs and new centers. Motion passes.
Police Policy Committee – item 47
Denise DeMarb says this was moved from CCOC without recommendation to Common Council. Bidar asks if the sub was moved, I didn’t hear the answer, but I think it is yes.
Public Testimony on item 47
Greg Gulembiuk would like to have Nathan Royko Maurer go first. They reorder things.
Lauren – not here
Karen – not here
Kabzuag Vaj says she has been here since 1980, almost 40 years. She is opposed because she feels like there is a real movement in the community and people are feeling anxious and trying to figure out the solutions, as elected leaders you probably feel a sense of urgency, and people are proposing all kinds of stuff. The impact of your intentions are not always beneficial to those on the ground. It’s ok to wait and ok not to come up with the solution, you don’t have to feel bad if your solution isn’t chosen. You are creating solutions to problems you don’t know. On the resolution you talk about including Asian Communities – East Asians lives are different than Southeast Asians. Cambodians and Hmong are the most impoverished. Go back to the drawing board, maybe you shouldn’t create the committee. Look to leaders, not just the nonprofits. YGB is probably one of the best answers you are going to get.
Mayor chastises people for clapping.
I missed the person’s name. She reads from statement and I totally missed it . . . . but its on the audio. 40 minutes into the meeting. Hopefully I can find the statement and link it here by tomorrow morning.
M Adams says that she is against the resolution for 2 reasons. It lacks community inclusion. Communities are not centered in this process, the community should be centered in the process, they should have been part of drafting the resolution. It is a lack of community inclusion. They want that inclusion in a real way. The second reason is that it doesn’t address power, white and affluent communities have power, but black communities do not. They don’t want police to come into the communities and serve the needs of the communities needs and interest. We need to close the gap between the community and the power over the policies and practices. They don’t want to be tokenized, they need poor black communities, not mainstream communities, to determine how the process goes. They need to have actual power. There is already a Police and Fire Commission but poor black people are not represented, they need power and community control.
Brandi Grayson – What is happening across our nation is about not having power to hold police accountable, in schools, in health system, when people are powerless – she says that this came from people with good intentions, she read a cap times article from years ago that had the same discussion, this is not new. We must include those most impacted. What we have seen play out, a group formed before Tony Robinson was killed, we said if something didn’t happen, we would have a Ferguson in Madison, you mocked us, said we were lazy, and when it happened you mocked us again. When are we going to . . . missed some . . . when are we going to move in the opposite direction from plantation politics, are we going to have the same conversations in 40 years, this is the same conversation in 1983. Life has not changed for me in that time, and it hasn’t changed for my children. This impacts me. When will you work from on a position of impact and not intention. (I missed a bunch, she was on fire)
Carl Landness – He brought soemthing to represent the ways of the heart, to rise abouve blame, fear. He is saddened to see bashing in the city of his roots. He grew up here and moved away for 30 years and came back. He says there are ways for win-win solutions, there are teachers of non-violent communication that can do that, Marshall Rosenberg is one of his favorite. We can trasncend the fear and the blame to get the community that he hears people want. Do we have the humility to rise above our pride, of winning, to move beyond that. Also missed some here.
Will Gruber says that he doesn’t know what to say after these genius children speak. He has had it good, he was homeless for his first year and a half, but he has it good, he’s white. He thanks the community members.
Mayor asks again for people not to clap.
Eric Upchurch does a dance . . . says he is a member of Young Gifted and Black. He spoke earlier but not everyone was there. He says that his understanding of the resolution is that they will empower an expert, pay them, to do a study over the course of the year and an ad hoc committee will then make recommendations to people who have power over the police department. The same group that has had the power while we have this disparity rate and people are killed by police officers. Why are we here, we have been in the streets and had a community court and what you heard was to hire an expert. If there was community control over the police when Matt Kenny shot someone in 2007, we would have been fired, he would not have been rewarded and Tony might still be alive. If there is a study, ti should be about how we can affect commmunity control over the police.
Amelia Royko Mauer does want to move forward and quickly to ensure that deadly force is only used when it is the only option to prevent undue harm. She was in a rush on the camera study and she understands why they should wait and communicate with the most impacted communities. In this situation she feels it is essential that this resolution is dropped, that we wait to hear from people who have the empirical knowledge we don’t that are most impacted by the police in this city. At some point a community in the nation will have to take the radical step to reform that takes into account those most impacted, it will be uncomfortable and have unconventional processes. She says that they have had commission on policing since the beginning of the 20th century and nothing has been changed. We need to stop objectifying and creating fear of the leaders, YGB, who allowed the boiling pot to release some of that energy effectively and peacefully. If you want to honor someone who has been peaceful, that is YGB and Freedom Inc. She holds up a satirical picture of a police and military uniformed person – her time it out, mayor says that she can’t talk any longer – Rummel moves to allow her more time – she says the picture is a picture of police beating a legal observer and used that as a way to celebrate veterans day. Bring people to the table, stop being afraid. (I missed some of that too)
Mayor waits because people clapped, he says he will wait every time people clap.
Nate Royko Maurer reads the letter again. He asks for an extra minute. He points out hat the rules of order for this body are very emblematic of cultural issues. He reads the letter that was written to the CCOC.
Someone clapped – mayor pouts and won’t call on people.
Greg Gulembiek says that more dialog is required than be be done from the podium. He reads his letter again, that he read during CCOC. Someone snapped their fingers and the mayor interrupts and makes him wait. He keeps reading about his contact with Seth Stoughton. Greg says that hiring an expert, have them write a report and bring to a committee to review, this is contradictory to the resolution. Samba and Rebecca has something that comes closer.
Leila Pine also spoke earlier about her son and how that was different than when Paulie Heenan was shot just two blocks from her house. She is the mother of two latino children. Her son has had a different reality growing up in Madison than her daughter who looks more white. She tells the story of her drunk son having keys to an apartment and going to the wrong apartment and the police being called. If it weren’t for luck, she thinks her son would also be lying dead on the ground. That officer questioned him and asked where he lived and the police called them instead of shooting him, asked if it really was her son and she went to the door and confirmed it was her son. Still to this day she worries about he could have been Paul. Rummel moves to allow her one more minute. What she learned is that the reality her children have had is so different than her and their white friends and when she talks about the situation and how the schools were different than them. People are in denial about how it was different and she started talking with black and brown parents and they got it right away, please include this community and communities of color in redrafting any ordinance.
Mayor reads off registrants 11 in opposition.
Anthony Castalone says there are a lot of uncomfortable feelings so he says happy 90th birthday Malcom X, (cheers), he says he is not a radical for saying that. He plays an 18 minute clip of the mayor, on the night Tony Robinson died, he said that the costs of the tragic death would be paid by the community. Who is the commmunity? Do the police belong to community? If they do, they need to pay or pay their dues for what happened on March 6th. He isn’t saying dismantle the police, so many do it well, but the power structure is too off balance, he wants to trust the police, but he can’t because he can break the law 11 times for each time a black person does. He says that he wants to feel safe calling if people are in distress like Tony Robinson was. And he can’t trust the police if everyone can’t trust the police. He might not be young gifted or black, and neither are you, but that doesn’t mean you can’t make a change.
Sasha W says someday she will teach people to say her last name. This is what power looks like, telling them that they can’t show that they agree, it should be helpful to know that. It would be helpful to know if people agree with what she is saying while she is up there and they can snap for her. She says that people need to be included in every aspect of this process, the dynamics in the room are still hard but changing, that is because YGB has been bringing people, I don’t see anyone in this room that looks like me, I never have, but I am hear because people are here with me. (Missed some) The people who have been showing up need to be brought to the table, they are here, they have expertise and they are the ones who need to have power, you can’t just find a black person and say here. The people are here in this room that need to be consulted.
Lauren still not here.
Karen still not here, left.
Matt Kozlowski thanks the council for taking action, back in March when PD put out a call for this kind of review. What we were getting at as for the public to have a space to weigh in and that it should reflect the community values. The resolution comes close, it talks about restorative justice, but it places more weight on the experts than the public. We want a community wide dialog, and for communities that face over-policing and face this every day. He recommends to table it and the public hasn’t had a long time to work with this. Try to come up with a better charge and vision that charges them to come up with a public process.
Esty Dinur talks about a car accident where she broke a mirror and a police officer was dispatched and he walked into my backyard and peeped in my bedroom window where I was naked, it was July and it was very hot. She says that it is lucky that she was separated from her husband who was a combat veteran with PTSD and if he were there she and others might be dead. She has been supportive of a review of the police, she came thinking she would be in support, we pay them and they are public servants . . . until she heard the young folks, she did not know it did not come from below but from above. She was in awe that they were saying they were going to organize rallies or force something on you, they were extending a hand to you, saying we are available as a resource and we want to be part of the process. This is an amazing opportunity for you to incorporate the resource into an action. She knows that they speak with passion – that the language is strong, but they are not threatening you. They are saying they will work with you. She says we are seeing changes with Obama saying they won’t give military equipment to the police. Blacklivesmatter is spreading even in Isreal. Listen with your heart and we might see some great change in this city.
Motion
Mayor asks what the motion is . . . DeMarb says that motion is to move item 47. Bidar moves a substitute.
Bidar thanks the speakers and the people who have communicated with them. She is well aware that the process was a huge amount of work, it wasn’t a perfect process, but it moves forward the work. She wants to clarify a few things. She says the work of the exper and ad hoc committee are not linear or sequential. That is just the way the “be it resolved” language was written. They thought the work could get started by the expert while the committee was formed and then they will come together. She also doesn’t think that one person will be the expert, it is likely to be multiple people perhaps at different times. She would also like to address the critical nature of who is on the committee and that the process before us is the usual process where the mayor selects a group and brings it to the council for confirmation. Given the lack of trust in systems right now, there is not much hope or trust that the right people will be appointed, she doesn’t have an answer to that. She just wants to put it out there, she heard it and her personal intent (maybe not impact) is that they would be from the most impacted community, that it would not be people on other committees or who’s voices we are hearing in different kinds of ways, so that it would be the communities most impacted.
Samba Baldeh asks what they mean by “community control over the police”? M Adams says that you should ask us to come in an do a full presentation, there are 5 pillars. Community has ability to hire and fire police. That police have to live or be from communities they serve. You have to live in the community they police. The community can control the policies and practices of the police. Samba wants to move another substitute. He moves the alternate, a second substitute. The alders have an email from him. WHat has been said here tonight is a clear indication of where they need to start. We all care about the relationship between the police and the community. He says there is a lack of trust, displayed by the testimony. The alternative is a good start on what has been said tonight. It would allow people to reach out and have community meetings around the city, it would bring people forward. The other resolution he does not like the $50,000 for the consultant. That will not last very long or do very much. He says that if we have to fix this, there will be people against what we want to do, but if we want to make a change we must face how difficult it is. This is a good start, we need community oriented committee. It could be the people who testified here, that way there is trust. WE want them to come back about what needs to be fixed and if we need an expert it might cost a million dollars or so. If we don’t we will continue to have the same problem.
Denise DeMarb says that work to hear the community is already in the police camera committee, the YWCA will do community engagement work, Colleen Butler and Jacqueline Bogess will be doing that work, holding listening sessions all over Madison on policing. Its already in the works, funded and contracted. So the reason it wasn’t put specifically in here is that it is approved and funded. They will be giving feedback to both ad hoc committees and the report. Sorry it wasn’t better known, but it was thought about.
Rummel hopes they will take the alternate seriously. She says they need to start with community outreach, what DeMarb talked about is a more narrow focus and she isn’t sure it is sufficient. We need to start with a committee to go out to the parts of the city to get input and that should inform how we get experts and then it would be from the committee. She hopes they will consider this a way to move forward in a way that is much more transparent. 3 people will decide on hiring somebody but we wouldn’t have the ability to say who they are, she thinks this process if backwards.
Barbara McKinney says there were over 30 individuals who spoke to this item and no one spoke to support it. She understands the substitute motion is on the floor, but it says to her that they are not ready to vote on it, with a sense of intelligence, she would like to move to refer to CCOC and the Public Safety Review Board. It’s seconded.
Kemble asks what is referred. Mayor says original and the two substitutes.
Bidar acknowledges that part of the system is that they have received emails in support. She wants that to be out there, she doesn’t want people in support to feel their voices were not heard, including from Mother’s United.
Cheeks wonders if he could get some clarity about the goal of referring it back to CCOC, he says one of the limitations of something that requires discussion is that it has a time limit. If it needs to be in front of CCOC he wants to know why, why not just PSRC?
Palm says that he listened to the debate and speakers and they have received emails from many, but it is surprising that we have a motion to create a committee and then they get to make a decision about the consultant and some of it boils down to who is on the committee. IN our process the mayor chooses and the council approves. It is probably useful to us to figure out what the charge of the committee is and who is on it. He says they can list a general area of communities but they are subdivided into smaller communities and we need to make sure we get the right communities. We need to engage with the mayor about who we are trying to appoint to the committee because this is nothing without the right committee. He is ok with more time, but we have to ask the right questions.
Baldeh says that if they move forward, we need an ad hoc committee and get started now, but that committee would talk to people about the issues and bring back recommendations. If we send this to CCOC then the same people will come and testify again, lets get started, but in a way that is trustworthy. I missed some. He also thinks there was a good number of emails that supported the new version.
Matt Phair says that he knows this is referral but he wants to get his points out there. He says if this passes, then he thinks they should find people in their communities, not in charge of nonprofits, and we need to forward those names to the mayor. AS far as the consultant and the committee, he thought the two things could happen simultaneously. If the committee is made up of on the ground people, then the consultant can do their work. He thinks they can do both. He says that they go emails saying we shouldn’t do this at all, that they shouldn’t spend the $50,000. As a teacher, he says that everyone thinks they know how to be a cop, and he personally is a sponsor, but he supports the police department and the real goal is to . . . Mayor shuts off his microphone because the audience spoke up . . . . he turns it back on. He says they want to make it better, if there are issues and trust break downs, we need to have use of force on the table. It needs to be talked about, at least. He says that we also have to invest in the communities that are impacted. This is not all on the police department, there is need for community service to go along with it. Cook county jail registers as the biggest mental health facility in the country, but that is not what they are. We have issues with violence in our community, especially in the last two months, that is unacceptable. He would like to talk more about that, hold people accountable, but also support people who have turned to guns or gangs, we need some outrage on the level of violence. There are kids that believe the way to deal with violence is to shoot the other kids. We heard some language, he says that when we hear that police murder people, he doesn’t agree, he just wants to say that. He wants them to support the substitute.
Rummel says they all have violence in some parts of their district, she had a community meeting and people wanted to know more from the police. That is important. She tried to engage with her neighbors and police together and that is the spirit of what they are trying to do. What has swayed her about the substitute. She says in the recent RFPs on land use, they put placeholders to certain groups to recommend to the mayor, maybe we could do that here.
DeMarb says that she believes who is selected is the most important work, and many of the conversations, all of them, she has asked for not the usual suspects. She is asking for new leaders, the usual people are sort of tired, they want new people to come forward, just like we are excited to have new alders on our council. Selecting the right people is crucial to the work. If we go through all the work and the community doesn’t buy in, then it is a useless process. She can’t imagine anyone wants to go through a year’s worth of work and have the community say that’s not what we want. Community engagement is vital, she spoke to the contract put forward. There is nothing that says they can’t hold 100 meetings, its up to the committee. They tried to be inclusive, but the flaws were pointed out, they tried to be broad, to include those people most impacted, they used the words in the conversations. Of course that is the most important thing. We are really listening. This conversation would not have happened a year ago, we weren’t in that place, we are now. We don’t have all the answers, we aren’t professing to, this is a committee of the community, not one alder will sit on the committee. There is a process to start the work. There are people opposing this too, not sure why they didn’t show up, we heard from those people, and that didn’t stop us cuz we don’t believe that. She wrote something today, she was reading the president’s report on policing, and in the beginning it says that when any part of our American family feels like they are not being treated fairly, it is all of our problem. It means we are not strong as a community or city. When applied to criminal justice, then we are not protecting the community as we should. She has worked hard on this, has ownership, and with that she sponsored it, she hopes they pass it. It’s not that they haven’t heard what was said in two meetings, but it puts more responsibility on each and everyone of use to make sure the people appointed and the public process takes place in a real way.
McKinney removes the motion to refer. She heard community sentiment and conversation. The discussion widened and changed her thought process. SHe wants to deal and wrestle with it. But it has to contain community agent and voices, it is not an option whether they decide to do it or not, it must have community engagement.
Mark Clear says this must all sound like blah, blah, blah, he senses a lot of frustration, there has been a lot of talk about power and sometimes people get duped into thinking we have power, the real power is Pole with money and the people who vote. The people who get what they want have money and vote. Those least enfranchised have neither, until we change that, we won’t change much at all. We should be the community since they elected us, and what happened in April, 72% of the people stayed home, that is what people with money want, that is why they pass laws at the state. Unless that changes, its all just blah, blah, blah.
Amanda Hall says that the actions they take tonight are asking the communities for their trust. We are saying we really, really, are trying to get it right this time. That is asking for a lot right now. She asks her colleagues to mindfully think about what they vote one.
Sarah Eskrich says that this conversation is a success. She thinks they need to move forward, its a first step, that is how we will move forward as a community.
Cheeks says this is one of the most draining discussions he has had on the council. This conversation was well articulated in the paper 30 years ago, we have been discussing it for a long time, and people have been saying hurry, be bold, take action and over the last two months, he has felt and increased sense of urgency, we can’t wait, and yet despite good intentions we have a strong community output saying we aren’t doing ti right and we have to wait, he is really torn between taking action and the fear we are missing the mark. Clear had a good point in that people who vote retain power. It is as striking as that language is, but we are accountable to the public and they have power over if we will be here in the future and the community has demonstrated a need for new voices. We have an over-representation of African Americans on the council, that is a statement from the community. He can’t not move forward today, this isn’t a silver bullet, there isn’t a structure we could put forward that would be perfect that empowers the public most clearly, that structure is democracy and we know there are a lot of flaws between that as a theory and that in practice, but this is something that is meant to get at better informing us as a body, to bring more voices to the table and acknowledging that ti is essential that we as a council re-examine the police department interactions with the community. He appreciates the suggestion to simplify this, but he thinks the actual change is to remove the fiscal impact and then we would have to have this discussion at a future time. He says he thinks that opens an unnecessary door. He thinks the committee can decide when and where to meet. That distinction isn’t essential. He supports the first substitute (he sponsored).
Palm calls the question on referral. No objection to voting on referral. Only Mark Clear votes on referral, I think.
Baldeh’s second substitute is now on the floor.
Rummel asks who will chair and staff the committee. Mayor says that city attorney and he were discussing that. Mayor says the first answer is that the chair is chosen by the committee. For staff, the mayor says that he would turn to certain departmetns to not staff it, but answer questions as requested by the committee. Minimually the city attorney, the chief of police or representative of the chief, he would also recommend the attorney for the police and fire commission be present because so much is state stutatue and it has to be clearly understood what the limitations are.
Rummel says that the city attorney office will assist the committee, but who takes minutes and sets the agenda. Mayor says he can’t answer that.
Chris Schmidt says he is concerned that we are focusing on the shooting and the police and to drill down on the police is unfair, all the problems existed on March 5th before Tony was shot and they exist now. These problems are so profound and rooted in racism and the reason he will support one or the other, because of something FDR said, the country demands experimentation, above all try something – paraphrased by me, sorry. That has been weighing on him, representative democracy favors the majority and always will and if we are going to work within that system to create the outcome we want, will be a challenge, he is expecting some level of failure and success. This is barely a first step, it has been a problem as long as we have had mixed societies.
Sheri Carter says that they need someone to take minutes. In 1975 a friend of hers stopped at a gas station on Fish Hatchery and was pumping gas and three guys got out and beat him up and he ended up with a plate in his head, the store owner locked the door so her couldn’t get in, there were no marches, things have been going on for a long time, he’s on disability, he was 20 years old, we need to continue dialog because without it we don’t have change, you might not like what people say, but dialog creates change, if we wait, how long do we wait, it might not be perfect, but we gotta start talking and start some kind of action.
Bidar urges them to support the substitute, not the alternate. She thanks Baldeh for the alternate and the conversation it created. Money is power, when we put money in a project we want it to move forward. One of the main reasons she ran to sit here, she sat on committees and heard from people, and people came forward in the communities mostly impacted, we heard mothers cry about husbands being taken away and then not one of the recommendations were acted on. They spent a year and half to feel good that they had sent us. She is tired of doing that, there is a lack of perfection, but she will make sure hat they hear regularly and constantly from those most impacted, but we have to start somewhere in a meaningful way. On the next issue we will talk about, we hired a consultant, we put money behind it, just to get the work done, because just a committee weren’t able to do it without a resource allocation. We might need more money, if we need more, she is fine with that, it is that important. That is why the money.
Mayor asks the Finance Director what the operating budget for police and fire is in 2015. Chief says not enough. Schmiedicke says about $115M combined. Mayor says that we don’t have the ability to sort out how much of that money originates in responding to calls on mental health or substance abuse, but his guess is 30% of the budget and for police it could be 50%. It could be spent on economic development and expanding opportunity. The challenge before us is larger than the police department and in the last 40 years, those who are responsible for the funding of mental health and substance abuse have failed to meet their obligations and we find police officers have to be set up in special units to deal with challenges due to mental health and substance abuse. Firefighters have much of the same problems. Look at their transports, it is just as likely to be something related to some sort of infirmity as a car accident. The same is true with fires, people who are intoxicated who are trying to cook. If we look at the mission of the resolutions, either one, we have to address those issues. We also have to look at the limitations of the state statute, the police and fire commission clearly have the power to hire and fire. WE can’t require them to live in the city of Madison, that was taken out of our control. Many of the the practices are set through state statutes, so the committees will have to work within that reality. Also democracy, this is a legislative process, we have all participated in community based proceedings and we all know that the far superior configuration is people sitting around a table facing each other. The question of staffing, the mayor will work with they council president and pro tem and they will figure out how to staff and give technical expertise. They have identified the city attorney’s office and the police department. The system of government we have, was adopted because as we grew as a city, because too large and unwieldy to have 2500 let alone 250,000 gather, that is why we have a representative democracy. We have seen this on other issues, where we have to weigh the number of people who show up , the intensity of their position and those who are not in the room and as elected officials we need to keep that in mind. Given those considerations, recognize they will figure out the staffing, that they have to deal with inequity far beyond the police department which unfortunately the agency we rely on when all the other systems have failed, those dealing with mental health, substance abuse, poverty, but he won’t let it go unnoticed that we have made significant changes in reordering priorities. Job creation is just one, both for adults and young people, this is not the time for those details, but he wants to be clear most of the work the police department does is a reflection of failures in those places.
Palm says they should leave the money in, they should let them spend it on other things, the committee without us, can spend the money, we would still approve the consultant, they won’t have to ask for money, we are strengthening their ability to do their work. We are asking the committee to be the funnel and decision maker an we don’t set them up for success if they have to come back for the money. It’s like saying you’re an adult now, and we will give you the money, the power should rest with the committee. (I got confused there)
Kemble says that she agrees with he just said, she says in the first one someone writes an RFP, the mayor appoints 3 people and then they decide. What we heard was that the RFP process was backwards. She co-sponsored Baldeh’s amendment, but she thought that the committee should get the money and do the RFP. She saw the issue of trust. In some ways maybe this isn’t ready for prime time, it would be worse to do something the people impacted didn’t have trust in, so the alternative is what we did. (I missed some) She says people in this community are doing work and we haven’t brought them into the thinking because this just came to us, in some ways she thinks none of it is ready for prime time but she wants to put something forward that will be appealing for people to participate in and not be seen as a committee that does nothing.
Rummel says that the alternate – if you took out the citizen committee of three and then have the committee work with staff we might get at keeping the money and change how the RFP gets drafted.
Ahrens calls the question on the Baldeh substitute to make that the main question. No further discussion. Only 2 or 3 votes aye. Motion fairs, now the substitute that Bidar moved is before them. Mayor points out everyone can speak twice.
Rummel asks the mayor to clarify, he rules himself out of order – she thought it was on the question of cutting off debate. Mayor says that he asked if there was objections, Palm objects. Rummel can’t make a motion to Baldeh’s alternate. Clear points out if the alternate passes, Rummel can amend it.
Baldeh gets tripped up in process and there are clarifications. I”m confused.
Bidar says that there is quite a bit of interest to adding the money but removing the three people and folding that into the ad hoc committee. He says that if there was only one sentence taken out on the substitute, that would achieve that goal, but to get to the goal they would have to vote against the alternate.
Mayor says if you want to work with the substitute you vote aye, if you want to work with the first substitute, then you vote against the motion and go to work on hers.
Motions
Baldeh calls a roll call. Aye’s are: Carter, McKinney, Kemble, Rummel, Verveer, Wood, Zellers, Ahrens, Baldeh. Fails 9 – 11.
Bidar deletes the citizen committee of three appointed by the mayor – the whole sentence is deleted. She says she does listen.
Rummel says it is silent on the RFP, can we add to that or do we have to wait. Mayor says they can make an amendment when it is disposed of. Motion passes unanimously.
Rummel adds to that same paragraph for the committee to issue and rfp and make recommendations to the council and they will approve the contract. Clear seconds. Rummel says if you don’t say who issues the RFP its not clear. It is a common practice for committees to do this and it might actually be faster.
Mayor says that he is befuddled because it was hard to get a second and this makes all the sense in the world, was it just a slow moment or is there a reason not to support it.
Kemble says that it was unclear where it was being inserted, she was trying to figure out where it goes. Mayor says it goes where the deleted language goes.
Palm agrees, he was confused by the council being mentioned twice. Reviewed and approved by the council was redundant. Mayor quips it is just a reflection of the importance of the council.
Bidar says that the amendment should be bullet 2 under the be it resolved. Its just a suggestion not a motion. It would be part of the charge of the committee, they don’t need to be numbered, could be bullet point.
Mayor asks if that is friendly. Rummel says yes, everyone agreed to it. Rummel says “the ad hoc task force will work with staff to establish criteria, issue and rfp and make a recommendation to the common council” (I think) is the motion.
City Attorney says that they could do multiple RFPs, Palm suggests that they change will to can.
Motion passes. Palm moves to change “will” to “may”, seconded, no discussion, lots of nos. Motion passed.
They are now on the amended substitute. DeMarb clarifies some language. It’s now the main motion, motion passes unanimously, its now the main motion. Mayor says two more amendments could be made now. Clear asks if this is 15 votes. Mayor says yes.
Motion passes with everyone voting aye.
They move a 5 minute recess. (See you in 15 or 20 . . . )
