And Mayor Soglin was in his seat and started the meeting on time! Its a new day!
ROLL CALL
Everyone present except Solomon
CONSENT AGENDA
This was a little rocky getting started. They almost forgot to do the roll call, the Mayor wasn’t used to the microphone system and since they were recessed from noon and had to wait to do public hearings, there was a little confusion, but after a rocky start, they were off and running. The mayor thought they started on items 16, Lauren Cnare, the new council president said they started on item 12 but she wanted to present the consent agenda. Her mic wasn’t on, Mark Clear and staff from City Channel try to help, the system gets going and they are ready.
Cnare says welcome to new members, she says they might go fast, but if they have questions, they should ask the person next to them. She explains that the consent agenda means that they will pass the recommendation for each item on the agenda except for items which are separated because there are people there to speak, require an extraordinary vote (2/3s or 3/4s) or items that the alders ask to have separated.
Cnare separates public hearing items 12 – 15. Says that items 16, 24 and 27 will be recorded as a unanimous vote unless someone objects. She notes item 16 has a substitute which is at their desk. Number 73 is a recommendation for the substitute. Item 110 they are adding a referral to Ped, Bike Motor Vehicle Commission. She says they have speakers on items 14, 15, 21, 26, 73, 85, and items 95 & 96 have registrations. The attorney says that they don’t need to separate items 95 & 96.
Marsha Rummel asks that item 92 be referred to UDC.
Satya Rhodes-Conway says they don’t need to separate item 110, that if there are no objections they can just add the referral. She also says that they should wonder aloud to themselves about how tonight is different, she says they have new colleagues, a new mayor, a hail storm in spring and hopefully, in their first meeting together, they will move expeditiously and in a timely fashion. Then she adds “Happy Passover”.
Mark Clear says that he wants to move separation on item 16 and that Maniaci has a motion on that.
Joe Clausius asks to be added as a sponsor on item 30.
Bridget Maniaci asks to be added as a sponsor on the sustainability center but doesn’t know what item it is. They decide it is item 27.
Cnare repeats which items they will be discussing and the consent agenda passes.
ALDER APPOINTMENTS
It is not 6:45 and Cnare asks the Mayor what to do, he says take up the next item that is not a public hearing item.
Cnare moves acceptance of the substitute, that is not available to the public. There is no discussion, they start to vote and then Clear raised his hand. He moves to separate Rummel’s appointment to plan commission, landmarks and urban design commission and refers it back to the Mayor’s office. There is no second, so it fails. They vote again, and it passes unanimously.
Then, Maniaci wants to make another motion on item 16 to just separate Landmarks.
Mayor says that they need a motion to reconsider, he says he gave plenty of time, but they move reconsideration, someone seconds, there is no debate. So, they vote and they mayor says that there were about 8 nos and 4 yeses and the motion fails. There is no request for roll call, so they move on.
CENTRAL LIBRARY ROOFTOP COMMUNITY GARDEN REPORT
Public Comment
Ed Kuharski says welcome back to the Mayor. At first he has no mic, then, I still can’t hear him even with the mic. All I got out of it was that he wants Madison to catch up with Chicago who has had a green roof on their library for 25 years. He says he quickly studied the budget, he can’t understand some of the numbers, especially the storage shed and rain barrels and compost bins, we’re not Waukesha county, the numbers are out of line.
It’s now 6:45, the Mayor asks if they continue or if they go to the public hearings. They tell him they just continue.
Joe Mathers works at Community Action Coalition. He says that it is of interest to them that the city is interested in looking for structures to put roof top gardens on. He says they missed an opportunity with the Fluno Center and he doesn’t want this to be the last word on rooftop gardens. He says that this was added to a project that was already stressed. He says the assumptions were not tested with practitioners. He is worried about the extraordinary costs, there were other cost savings ideas, including garden elements and the elevator. He says to take this study for what it is, he is looking for a more nuanced analysis where rooftops could be gardens to work against loss of green space.
Susan Rosa – Welcomes back the Mayor, she is a private citizen and in the downtown gardens group and in opposition to the study, don’t adopt or accept, it should not serve as a guide moving forward, for the library or anywhere else, the study recommends against because it costs too much, the library staff don’t want it and community gardens can be done in parks. She realize this is not going to happen in the immediate future, it is clear for a it won’t happen for a time, but that doesn’t mean it is not a good idea or can’t happen in the future, this library will be there for 100 years, more money will be available, administrators will change and people will change attitudes about food and where it comes from – this is a matter of priorities and someday our priorities will include a community garden. This is about having a garden downtown, putting community gardens in parks might be part of the solution, but it is not without problems, there is contaminated land, park users want to use the land and using existing green space is not to goal for many, they want to add green space to our living spaces and they share that thought. Downtown is unique, land is expensive and likely to be contaminated and rooftop gardens are needed. They need to be creative, their study doesn’t support this, it seems to argue since it is too expensive to create and manage they don’t want rooftop community gardens. This is not the message we want going forward, they are not new, they are thriving and growing all over the world, don’t let this be the last word on the subject.
Jane Anne Morris, lives downtown, congrats everyone, her views are in the report you received, she is speaking from someone who wanted to be here, and it is an honor for her to read the statement from Barbara Vedder who represents District 2 on the county board and was on the common council 1995 – 2001, during that time Reynolds Garden was established, it was the first one downtown, it was a long and complex road to get there. It was done because many units downtown are multi-unit condos and apartment buildings without space for gardening. She supported her constituents who wanted these gardens and the city’s policies on retaining, preserving and expanding community gardens resulted from the effort. Many community gardens resulted from the efforts, but none are downtown since ground-level vacant space is rare and pricey. In addition to the grow-local, buy-local efforts, what better way to produce food than with a rooftop community garden. She has read the studies and recommends not to adopt them because the report does not address the issues involved. She has concerns about the prices in the report. They should not be considered infeasible, but a challenge for the downtown. This is the time to be innovative and we should be pro-active in finding new ways to come together. She thinks they should take a closer look at the report the Community Gardens Group did for the library and other rooftop gardens downtown.
Dana Olson – lives downtown above the old Magnus, she supports green roofs and gardening, and is on the waiting list, and can’t get garden close to her. She reads a statement from Anthony Meyer, who worked on the estimate, he feels misrepresented cuz he doesn’t agree with the design, he’s a green roof professional for the past decade, the price of $40 per sq foot can be reduced without compromising the integrity, $20 sq ft to $50 per sq feet is right, generally they fall in the $25 – 32.50 range. An example is the children’s museum, which was $32 per square ft, it has a water feature, chicken coop, wood decking, and its more complex than library design, the reason they got that price was because the design was approached cost consciously, they looked at value engineering opportunities, he would recommend that if they move forward, they take another look at the numbers, and he would be happy to assist.
Kevin Schiesser – He’s a community gardener at Eagle Heights, he’s on the Community Gardens committee, he lives downtown, he was working hard on the report, wants to highlight some of the key points left out of the feasibility study that deserve revisiting. First is the overwhelming social benefits of the garden, a space where different communities can be integrated, people of all ages gardening. The library has hired a consultant to get people excited and this seems like most obvious and easy way. The other issue is the energy savings and the extended lifespan of the roof green roofs which gets 21 lLEED points for a reason, huge bodies of research done on the savings, there is 6 – 30% savings in summer and 10% in winter. Soil and materials act like a like a hat in the winter and baseball cap to reflect heat in summer. It will also help with storm water runoff. They have to look into energy numbers otherwise not doing it justice. Please revisit.
Naomi Lipke – her priority for the library is for energy efficiency and durability and she is excited about his idea, when read the report she was very disappointed that this did not do the project justice, she saw in the report information about benefits of a green roof, they listed energy efficiency and durability but not aspects that got her excited. Didn’t mention social aspects of what I would get out of a library garden space or extensive roof, the social and economic aspects left out, research done was not thorough enough, encoucage you to oppose the adoption or acceptance, not thorough enough.
Two additional registrants opposing not wishing to speak.
Questions of Staff
Verveer, welcomes the Mayor and congratulates him, points out Jeanne Hoffman is here and asks her to describe the process the staff went through to develop the study.
Hoffman says project manager for the central library, Brian Cooper who is a LEED certified architect dis the research and worked with the design team, they went to the children’s museum and talked to them there, talked to vendors, pulled together materials and put together the report.
Verveer says some testimony was about Waukesha and fuzzy math, can you describe the cost estimates, issue of reports estimated costs for shed, etc. Explain those estimates, for intensive and roof top garden.
Hoffman says majority is recommendation to have a third elevator and comply with the codes. Once a garden is accessible to public they need emergency lighting, fire pathway lighting, railings, emergency exiting, etc. The elevator is a big issue, there are three in there now, with the current design going to two, much to chagrin of library staff, most concern is about the elevators, but they have a tight budget and they are working tirelessly to bring it in on budget and when worked with library staff and convinced them two well functioning elevators are as good as three not as well functioning. However, this would add use to the staff elevator, and it adds to that concern on their part. Library is a materials handling facility, half a million items moving up and down and all over the building and elevator access is primary concern. On the rain barrels, this is a public works contract and as you know, we have standards around public works that increase the costs, prevailing wage and other things that are good for the community but we pay more than a nonprofit may be able to get. In terms of rain barrels, there are 18K sq ft of roof, a major water collection system for the gardens, a 55 gallon drum or several won’t cut it, if there is a good rain storm, they want to collect a significant amount of water.
Verveer asks about work done in preparation of the study, the city attorney’s office and parks division and staff.
Hoffman says that the community gardens people brought up the issue that they pursued establishing gardens in parks but they were having trouble finding areas that would allow gardens, they did a deed restriction study on Brittingham, James Madison and Olin Turville, they are all in legistar . . . missed some
Verveer asks if it is correct that the study reached conclusion that it is not feasible but only because it is not in the budget.
Hoffman says not in budget, they are pursuing an intensive green roof, the ones with the shallow earth with sedum, again for all the reasons in the report that say green roofs are good for storm water, protection of the roof, etc.
Chris Schmidt asks Hoffman about cost savings on energy.
Hoffman says energy modeling group has been hired, looking at modeling a green roof, however, you are going to get other benefits of a green roof, its a good way to keep membrane from decomposing from UV rays but the energy savings is not as significant as you would think. They could just buy more insulation to get more energy savings.
Schmidt asks about the added benefits and what the net operating difference is?
Hoffman says they are doing that now, question is if it is a significant benefit that warrants not just a green roof but a community garden and she can’t say that will be proven out.
Bridget Maniaci asks how much space would be garden.
Hoffman says 14K sq ft – the roof where no third floor addition, that would be 40 beds, its a a conceptual look at raised beds on a roof.
Maniaci read the 300+ page deed history of James Madison Park about the limited deed restrictions, but some conflicts with other things, did you quantify how much space is available in parks?
Hoffman says there are maps but didn’t calculate the acreage.
Maniaic asks if it is more or less than the roof top.
Hoffman says “Way more”.
Discussion
Verveer urges colleagues to support to accept the report, thanks the members of the community that testified and thanks Jane Ann Morris, Sue Rosa and Kevin Shiesser for their work on the issue – he says that he sponsored the amendment 2 years ago when they first had a line item for the library that mandated the study be done, he has taken this seriously and thinks there is a short supply of gardens, only ones are at Eagle Heights and Reynolds, he says that it was a very thorough study, this is all Brian did for a while, he says the study is thorough, he takes issues with those who think not, he understands why they take issue with costs. Missed some. He wants to stress that this is not the last word on the subject, especially not on downtown community plots, we need to do better, groundwork has been laid beginning with parks, they are taking seriously the need for make parks downtown, might be some at central park, will not let that go by the wayside. He says also in the motion is a substitute resolution with language from community gardens committee. He points out this accepts the report, not adopt, if it said that then it might be different, but if adopting it, it would be true it was the last word. Instead accepting, acknowledging the report and staff’s fine work, months and months of fine work, not the conclusion that it will never happen. Adopt resolution accepting the report.
Manaici thanks the advocates for coming out, she did pour over the documents, wants to look at James Madison Park and move forward and would encourage people to contact her to work together to put it in place to get it off the ground. A lot of work has been done on James Madison Park and there are new opportunities with the shoreline improvements that have been done. She would invite people to come and talk with me, she had young tenants digging up terrace to plant a garden, there is a need for greenspace on the isthmus.
Marsha Rummel says that in working on central park it is clear there is a big yearning for more garden space, some of her neighbors worked with her and she thinks the council should look at the committee, currently there is no alder on there, its an orphan committee, we should ask the mayor to look at that and take a more organized approach, she got geeked out on the report too and the different locations that we can find new spaces.
They vote and it passes on a voice vote unanimously (I think).
MORE COMING . . . STUPID COMPUTER WOES STILL THIS MORNING . . . .
