I was at the Economic Development Committee yesterday and got a heads up on the next issue to ward off the homeless. You just knew this one was coming . . . remove the State St. benches?
Apparently its been talked about at the State St. Oversight Committee, but its not in the minutes. (August minutes not posted yet). However, I was able to get the following information. Apparently this latest round of questions was because there was suspected drug dealing around a bench on State St. . . . after all, they were using, GASP, cell phones!!!!
From: Fruhling, William [mailto:WFruhling@cityofmadison.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2011 2:42 PM
To: Briski, Kevin; Cnare, Rebecca; Skaife, Thomas; Resnick, Scott; Mary Carbine; Verveer, Mike; Romines, Charles; Gloede, Carl
Subject: FW: state s benchAll-
Alder Verveer had previously forwarded this concern from the Taco Bell manager. Planning staff (Rebecca Cnare) has had several conversations with him. Once this was brought to our attention, we made several trips to that location and noticed that on several occasions there were small groups congregated around the bench and there were several electronic devices (cell phones, ipods) plugged into the outlets on the light pole. We had the power to the outlet turned off. We also suggested that if there were drug-related activities, that was a different issue and removing the bench would not likely have an impact on it (or if it did at that location would likely just move it to the next bench).
Since the first segment of the street was reconstructed in 2005, we have occasionally heard from business and property owners that they do not want a bench or bike rack or planter in front of their stores for a variety of reasons. We have gone to great lengths to work with these owners to find an acceptable solution at the staff level and have in almost all cases. In those rare instances where we haven’t come to a mutually acceptable solution, the owners have had the opportunity to go to the State Street Design Project Oversight Advisory Committee to seek a change.
The goal of the project from the beginning was to have a balanced supply of seating and bike parking along the entire corridor. As there have been more sidewalk cafes, there have been fewer and fewer options to relocate benches for the public to use and bike racks. We have now been hearing from people that there is an inadequate supply of both.
I’m not trying to be difficult here, but I just want everyone involved in this discussion to have the same level of background information and to let them know that there is an established process for dealing with such issues. Thanks,
-Bill
So, BID staff asked for an answer from the police:
From: Mary Carbine [mailto:MCarbine@visitdowntownmadison.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2011 3:18 PM
To: Fruhling, William; Briski, Kevin; Cnare, Rebecca; Skaife, Thomas; Resnick, Scott; Verveer, Mike; Romines, Charles; Gloede, Carl
Subject: RE: state s benchThanks, Bill.
I would be interested in the perspective of the neighborhood officer on this issue. He is doing a lot of problem-solving work in the 500 block. We have seen great progress on serious issues in this block, and hope it will continue.
The police perspective is not represented on the State St. Design Oversight Cmte.
The police had this to say:
From: Gloede, Carl
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 8:07 AM
To: ‘Mary Carbine’; Fruhling, William; Briski, Kevin; Cnare, Rebecca; Skaife, Thomas; Resnick, Scott; Verveer, Mike; Romines, Charles
Subject: RE: state s benchI have added the comments of State Street Officer Pharo for the group to review.
Hi Captain,
There are very frequent problems with that bench. There have been many days when throughout the day, I have not seen any “legitimate users” of the bench. I have spoken with the Taco Bell manager and other business nearby, and all have expressed the same concern with that bench. In fact, many have said they see no need for benches in many areas, since their customers don’t, or can’t, use them. It does specifically impact Taco Bell the most, since it is directly outside of their door, and their customers have to pass through or around the groups that congregate there. Often, there will be up to 10-15 people in that immediate area, and they somewhat take over the sidewalk and Taco Bell entry way.
I see the same thing happen with several other benches, specifically the one outside of Jimmy Johns, the one in front of Stop & Shop, and the one directly across the street from there. Those benches become staging points for several different groups that frequent State St., although they seem to have no other legit tie to the area. That is, other than where they want to loiter, who they want to loiter with, and unfortunately, with whom and where they want to engage in behavior that effects the area negatively.
To me, there are several areas where the benches create the environment for people we don’t want to congregate in the area to do just that. Those listed above, 100 W. Mifflin St., outside of Starbucks on the square, and the philosopher stones and tables in the 10 block of N. Carroll St., are all examples of areas where there is virtually no use of the benches by people other than those who are also generating police calls and negatively effecting the quality of life in the area.
Jeff
Carl Gloede
Captain of Police: Central District
I just gotta ask – how can you determine if someone is a “legitimate user” of a bench? The horror! People congregating on State St. Just not the right kind of people. How do they know that they have “no other legit tie to the area”. What is a “legit tie”? Loitering? May I remind you that we only have loitering laws for panhandling and prostitution.
I don’t know, I guess I’m going to have to ask for the police calls to these areas. Are these just complaints by people because they don’t want these other people here? Or are they actually being arrested for something? This is supposed to be on the next agenda, so try to watch for it. It certainly wasn’t apparent from the last agendas that they were going to be talking about this.
wow. lots of code words in that email from the Captain. Very interested to see what your police records request reveals.
Put a bench in front of the buildings on willy street. Starting at the one where the MCC office is.
do merchants not realize that one of the draws of state street day and especially evening even in winter is people watching? Without those benches and planters, state street becomes just a strip mall and not much reason to accidentally end up there and wander down the street looking for food or browsing in stores?
Get rid of benches and planters, provide fewer bike racks and you will kill downtown.
Everybody has to be someplace!
Metro only puts bus stops with benches every other block and the benches are a welcome space to sit, especially if you don’t have to sit next to someone who is smoking.
I have the feeling that the businesses would like an ordinance that would allow the police to ticket someone if they can’t produce a receipt showing that they have purchase something from a merchant in the past 30 minutes!
Everybody has to be someplace!
Metro only puts bus stops with benches every other block and the benches are a welcome space to sit, especially if you don’t have to sit next to someone who is smoking.
I have the feeling that the businesses would like an ordinance that would allow the police to ticket someone if they can’t produce a receipt showing that they have purchase something from a merchant in the past 30 minutes!
Accept
Accept
“people we don’t want to congregate in the area”
Can we get some clarity on this? Who are these people? Do we have a list? If we do, how does one get on or off this list? Are there areas where it would be OK for these people to congregate?
It’s getting colder out, and warm indoor public spaces are
getting harder to find in Madison for those on hard times, and I’m
afraid there are pressures on city and Capitol to make spaces for
homeless even less accessible – going backwards. (See article by Pat
Schneider on the lost warm space in the Capitol )
Like Brenda on this blog-site – I”m concerned about bench-loss – and want to report that the benches in the downtown Madison post office indoor, warm common space have gone missing!
Some songs come to mind, for one who loves the solidarity sing-alongs and the Raging Grannies:
“Where have all the benches gone, long time passing…
Where have all the benches gone, long time ago.
Where have all the benches gone –
Gone into storage, out of common space.
When will we ever learn, when we we ever learn”
“Don’t it always seem to go, that you don’t know what you’ve got ’til it’s gone.
Madison benches are gone, now we’re sitting on the city lawn!”
(To the tune of “My Bonnie lies over the ocean….”)
“In Madison our motto was forward –
We found shelter for those most in need.
But now we’re reviewing those options,
Mayor Soglin, oh please take the lead –
and….
Bring back, bring back, oh bring back those benches…. for those in need!
Bring back, bring back, oh bring back those benches indeed!”
******************************BACKGROUND info on the benches in the common space of the downtown Post office city building:
On May 17th I noticed that the benches inside the City building on
Martin Luther King BLVD had been removed. They had been in the inside
public space, in the center hallway, just outside the post office doors.
All winter I had seen people there – sheltered from the cold, using
restrooms, resting while they waited for people in line at the post
office, etc. – and I was always so proud of our city for providing
public space for persons, sometimes less privileged.
So, I called the Mayor’s office, to find out more – to see if it was
a new policy, etc. specially now with a new Mayor who says he cares for
those in need. I’ve heard of other cities who try to drive
homeless people away, by limiting their community public space….and I
don’t want Madison to be such a place.
I talked with Laurie who manages that building – and she said a
committee had met and had purposefully removed those inside benches used
in the common area outside the post office – I asked if this was a new
policy from Mayor Soglin – to remove seats for those who may need
shelter – and she said “no, of course not”. She also said that people
who had ‘business” in that building had seats inside the various offices
there.
She took my name and complaint – and my request to reinstate the
benches – and she said she would pass it on. I told her I would be
watching to see how that resolves – and hoped others would contact her,
too – with a similar request.********************After not hearing anything – in June, I contacted my alder about this, who contacted the Mayor. And I’m still waiting for a response – and better yet, waiting for those benches to reappear in the common space! (and for those concerned with
budgets…..since we already have the benches, they were already
installed there at one time, this shouldn’t cost us anything.) Judy Miner judeminer@gmail.com 608-442-9812