I was a little surprised by who showed up . . . and who didn’t! 7 people spoke against the RTA, 35 spoke in support including representatives of Chamber of Commerce, Downtown Madison Inc, League of Women Voters, THRIVE, Sierra Club, Kathleen Falk, City of Madison Long Range Transportation Planning Commission and the Mayors of Sun Prairie and Fitchburg and miscellaneous other elected officials.
There were also 35 registrations against. I think the registrants against were mostly made up of the Dane County Sheriff’s Association making their presence known in their black and yellow shirts, opposing anything that isn’t about them, but none speaking. I’m not sure if they realize there is no money in the budget for the RTA, even tho some supervisors have said there is $500,000. People who have looked at the budget can’t find that money in there. 29 others registered in support. All in all, I was surprised the AM radio/Nancy Mistele/train-haters/misinformation crowd failed so miserably to be represented. And I laughed at the Realtors who don’t know what they think apparently. They support an RTA, but don’t because they have questions.
Here’s how the discussion went . . . with both Public Works & Transportation (Chaired by Opitz) and Personnel and Finance (Chaired by Hulsey) meeting at the same time which was at times a little confusing.
McDonell moves adoption of resolution 132 for Personnel and Finance. [That might not be exactly what he said, but it had the same effect.] I missed who seconded it. Schmidt/Veldran make same motion from Public Works and Transportation.
McDonell says the issue is stability of funding. City of Madison has had problems funding Metro which competes with police and makes it difficult in a economic downturn even at a time when ridership is up. [Ahem, actually, after the fair increase, ridership is down.] An RTA can build up a reserve fund to carry you through fuel increases and funding capital projects. Stability of funding is critical. Sales tax on MPO area is the source of funds. It will be property tax relief for those who pay for transit now. Greater Madison Convention and Visitor’s Bureau says says that of the maximum $30M that could be collected if they impose the maximum tax possible, $6M would come from tourists. Currently they don’t pay anything, unless take a bus from the airport, which he notes is slow. He says the 38,000 people who commute in to Dane County don’t pay for transit unless they ride the bus and then they are paying only a fraction of the full cost of that ride. Those commuters who live in other counties when they spend money at work or lunch would be contributing to the system. It creates some fairness by having not just the property tax payers pay for the system. He says clean air was talked about by the speakers. He says that Rapid Transit or rail can bring more density to the area, developers will build there and that density will be more efficient to provide services to. Single family sprawl is expensive in the long term for providing all kinds of services. Being able to provide tight development that can use transit will benefit taxpayers. Talks about sister city trip to Germany. They have the same size city and the county is as well. 200,000 in the city and 400,000 in the county and it was almost identical with the outlying cities and they have a rail system that runs at grade which was useful cuz Metro is not at grade. The citizens, who would be considered Republicans here, had no added problem with congestion – they find that an absurd question. They said you can time the lights and elements of the system to avoid impacting regular traffic. Finally, he asks “why now”? He says the state legislature put us in a bind. He supported a Dane County-wide RTA. He says he did not win on that and we have a smaller RTA. Puts us in a jam because county cannot hold a referendum in an area smaller than County. Only entity that can hold the referendum is the RTA itself. He believes that representation with taxation is importation. RTA area needs to vote on the referendum. If they don’t create the RTA, what would they be voting on, the only entity that can decide the product is the RTA. He says some have trepidation about what RTA would do once they are appointed and he is worried too. When this leaves here, he is out of the decision making process. He is comfortable with that, there will be alot of voices heard on all kinds of issues. He trusts the voters to make a good decision or he will live with whatever they decide. They need to work through how an improved bus & rail system and other transportation elements will coordinate with high speed rail and what kinds of parking ramps we will need – only RTA can do it. He is comfortable with commitment from elected officials and people who will appoint the RTA and believe they can be taken at their word that they will appoint people who support a referendum.
Hulsey asks a few members of the county board (Hendrick and Matano) about their appointments to the MPO and Sewer Commission where they have independent appointments and can impose user fees and can levy taxes. Matano says that he presumes that if he takes an action that displeases the County Executive he won’t be reappointed. He also points out that the Mayor demonstrated that by removing members of the Transit and Parking Commission when they disagreed with the bus fare increases. He notes there are checks and balances. He says the MPO hands out millions of dollars in federal pass through funds.
Stoebig says the Legislative Council Special Committee for RTAs has studied RTAs and elected RTAs are the exception not the rule throughout the country.
Hendrick urges committees to vote to recommend the resolution. He says the RTA will do some things, and not others. What the RTA will do – have a referendum prior to imposing a sales tax. The members of the RTA can adopt a by-law that they will not increase the sales tax until a referendum passes. That will be a binding referendum. The two things the RTA will not do – it will not regulate land use through transportation. He says he has heard that repeatedly, but the only person that said that was an elected official many years ago said “its all about land use”. He says transit facilities will attract land use and make it possible to have Transit Oriented Developments (TODs). He says he also heard a similar point in an email today, that it will automatically rezone property without the owners consent – it will not rezone. There is no such thing in the statute. Finally, he asks why, when they got written advice from corporation council, why continue to spread the misinformation?
Wiggy says there is alot of misinformation. Not many disagree an RTA is needed. He says nothing in the legislation says that the RTA can do a referendum. He says he isn’t sure they can legally do that. Corporation Council is not here tonight even tho requested. He asks how you can vote on something if they do not know if it is legal or not. He talks about Blagojevich the IL governor and compares asking the RTA appointees to agree to referendum to his actions and says there are ethical questions about if you can make appointment contingent on how they vote. [Yes, he actually said that.] He says this year there is $500,000 in the budget for the RTA. He says otherwise there is nothing in the budget and the RTA will have no staffing. He says they need funds to get them organized. Asks to postpone until talk about referendum and says they need a legal opinion. [Somewhere in there, a missed a bit – I think I got stunned by the Blagojevich thing . . .
Martz points out that the chair (Opitz? Or Hulsey?) said that when he proposed a referendum on an RTA, that we didn’t have enough information for anyone to vote on an RTA. You were probably correct. 2 years have gone by, there wasn’t any information then, 2 years later we don’t have any more information than we had then. We have no policies and procedures to recommend to the RTA. Prefers that county board appoint a committee and follow same guidelines for the membership of the committee as in the RTA legislation, but have them develop the procedures and make them in public and make sure the public is involved in the discussion as they go along. The committee can make the recommendations and give them to the appointed board so that their voices are heard and to give them guidance. [He makes it sound like the RTA won’t have to follow open meetings laws, but its a government created entity so I don’t see why they wouldn’t have to.] He doesn’t disagree an RTA is needed. Somewhere down the line an RTA shoudl be established. He says he has concerns based on being member of Fitchburg Council and on the County Board. They have the ability now to get services through Madison Metro, when service is not satisfactory, they can no longer approve that contract. He questions if they can do that and have that kind of flexibility with the RTA. If they want a service under the RTA do they pay or does the RTA pay. He heard alot of different expectations tonight, not everyone is in agreement about what they think an RTA should consist of. Would prefer we table it and develop a committee, even if its the people the Mayor’s would recommend as advisory to the public, let them be aired publicly and let the public comment. McDonell could set a time limit to have them come back.
Ripp wants to amend line 77 adding “be it further resolved that one of the Counnty appointees shall be from a township in the boundaries of the RTA.” He gets seconds/motions from both committees. He says that it is taxation without representation – Madison has 2 appointees, rotating village appointees and the cities have their appointees but the 15 towns don’t get theirs. They have a different perspective in the rural area. They will be paying sales tax and need to have that perspective. The county exec has two appointees.
McDonell akss if this is the important thing that will cause Ripp to vote yes or no
Ripp says he likes buses not trains, wants to not create the RTA before the referendum. Not guaranteeing his vote on anything.
McDonell says he’s against the countywide referendum, he agrees towns should have a representative. Legislation is kind to cities and villages and each city that reaches 15,000 in population can get an appointment. The City of Madison is taking a beating, they only got 2 appointments with the legislation. He thinks the other two County Exec appointments should come from the City of Madison. While he feels bad for the Towns Association that opposed the RTA, he feels more bad for the City of Madison who has the population and the assets and has made the investments in transit.
Bruskewitz says she is concerned that once RTA is formed, the state statute defines who can and can’t be on it. You can’t play this game, you can’t make those changes. Its a matter of equal representation. The statute is fundamentally flawed. Would ask Corp Council do go back and determine weather Dane County should act on this resolution when there is an equal protection issue under the Constitution. [For a response . . . wait for it . . .] She raised that issue with them, will need to get the answer at the county board meeting. Once RTA is formed, we’re done. We have no influence on anything that they do and no influence on the people who make the appointments. Wants to postpone to get answers to legal questions. She would ask Hendrick, does the RTA have condemnation power or the ability to change zoning without asking the people who live in the area. These are legal questions that the committees need to have answers to before they vote or its a slap in the face.
Objections to asking questions.[There were several points where there were all kinds of procedural objections. Especially when they were debating with speakers who testified. Here, Hendrick never answers because Bruskewitz is out of order.]
Wiggy says that this resolution is the way it comes out of the state. He says that there is a line missing in 13. He asks McDonell if he did that on purpose or if it is an oversight.
MdDonell says that if that was omitted it was a mistake and he would support moving it in. He says we have no control even if omitted a line, that is the statute and they would have to follow it. He apologizes if he did omit it. He says the only thing they have control over is what Ripp suggested. [And now the response to Bruskewitz . . . ]McDonell says the RTA says that US Constitution applies to other states and the RTAs are appointed there.]
On the Ripp Amendment
Public Works and Transportation – passes 3 to 2
Personnel and Finance – fails 2 – 6
[It was a voice vote, but In Public Works and Transportation Martz and Ripp were joined by a chagrined Opitz who voted aye because he thought the whole committee voted aye and was surprised when Veldran and Schmidt voted no. He says he didn’t mean to take away a voice from Madison. On Personnel and Finance, the vote was Ripp and O’Laughlin no and Hulsey, Hesselbein, McDonell, deFelice, DeSmidt and Stoebig voting aye.]
Hulsey talks about air pollution – gets interrupted by Wiggy who says the chair can’t speak. Hulsey was trying to talk about these reports and says there was alot of information out there and cars create more pollution than trains.
Matano thanks Martz for describing how he got there. They did have a committee to look at recommendations. Mayor Allen said it is confusing because trains and transit have alot of the same letters, he adds transport as in Transport 2020. He says they have a preferred alternative and it is in Transport 2020. The RTA will open up great opportunities for opening up transit to Stoughton and Deforest and it makes sense that at the moment they don’t feel like anything is in it for them because they don’t get anything right now. Transit is good for the environment. On zoning, it is not an issue of regulation, but facilities generate land uses as Hendrick pointed out, just like interchanges on interstate generate development. Has seen transportation related development in his district that has explicit mentions of future rail stops in the plans. He talks about Hill Farms and Hilldale being a Transit Oriented Development and there are no growing pains. He says the land use aspect encourages development – that is why chamber and others in support.
The final vote was:
Personnel & Finance AYE: Hesselbeing, McDonell, deFelice, DeSmidt, Stoebig and Hulsey NO: Ripp and O’Laughlin
Public Works and Transportation AYE: Veldran, Schmidt, Opitz NO: Martz, Wiggy
If I have time, I’ll post the public testimony later.
