Two More State St. Benches Removed

We’re up to 12 now. Despite police testimony that removing the benches won’t solve the problems, some confusion about if this was about homelessness or drug dealing or homelessness and no data to help them sort it out, the loss of many benches already, the committee voted unanimously to remove benches in front of Monday’s (doesn’t like the homeless) and Taco Bell (homeless and drugs) based on the testimony from downtown businesses.

STAFF INTRODUCTION
Bill Fruhling, Planning Department staff did an overview of the benches, bike racks and other amenities on State St. Initially there was a plan they worked hard on, over time there were requests for adjustments. Some handled by staff and some by committee – later they are going to consider how they make those decisions in the future. There are a few requests to move the benches, they thought it was time to pause and look at how things have changed over the last number of years. There was always a goal of the plan to have an adequate supply equally distributed for bike racks and seating, enough to meet the demand for people and not have them chain bikes to trees and benches. They had recent discussion on bike rack issues when they talked about B cycle in the 500 and 600 block, they don’t need as much discussion on the bike racks but they never had the bigger discussion on the benches. Fruhling and Rebecca Cnare (also planning staff) have a handout of the survey they did, they have the original plans as approved by the committee and the squares are benches, and the circles are the bike racks. Red is removed; green added and blue is no change. [Random note! Rebecca Cnare has the best hand outs ever! She takes complicated issues and makes them understandable and clear in pictures/visual format. Very much appreciated!)

Cnare explains that blue is no change, some relocated to keep the neutral out of there, only red and green are changes, 100 block 48 bike spaces, and that is minus 4, it has 12 benches and which is minus two. Second block, added bike spaces due to Overture, that is plus 40, no change in benches, some have been relocated but the block just added bike spaces. Remember 40 added because we lose a bunch later. 300 block, not much change, 55 bike spaces and a few relocated, no changes on benches. 400 block pretty similar, no change in bike spaces, did lose a bench in front of Chins. 500 block, a lot of change in benches, not bike racks, 71 bike spaces, lost 6 benches, the 5 bike spaces was added cuz of Francis Street. 600 block lost 23 spaces from original plan, has pictures, some of the racks are just solid with bikes, we counted 50 bicycles in the 6 racks, it was over used, they were chaining them to sidewalk cafes, not sure how that works at night when they have to take them down, they only lost one bench in front of Einstein’s bagels. Technically plus 13 bike spaces from original plan but not equally distributed and lost 10 benches and most in 500 block overall from when designed it, benches were often moved for the cafes, she apologizes for not having a map of the cafes, she just got the list today.

Fruhling reviews how the staff makes decisions about moving or removing benches or bike racks. One of the principles when we came up with the design of the street was for it to be flexible, to respond to use change over time, our previous arrangement had fixed benches and planters, those round brick planters and benches couldn’t move and couldn’t work around. They strived to have street furniture that was flexible to accommodate the way the street is used over time that was part of the thinking at the time. Some retail moved to restaurants, the way it has been working is that staff from engineering, planning and parks and mall crew take moving one bench serious, they get together go out and find out what the fuss is about and see if there are options, our first thing is to see if they can move it, not remove it. They try to keep it in the same proximity, slide it down to accommodate a café or outdoor vending area, they work hard to do that and mostly can accommodate, all were to accommodate a vending spot or sidewalk café. There were some cases where they have not been able to come up with something that they felt was acceptable, then the requests come to the committee and it’s been a while since they had any. We try to address it administratively, but where concerns about it not keeping with intent of design, then you make the call. There are a couple request tonight. As they talked about at the last meeting, its been going on for so long and there have been incremental changes and they need to look at bigger picture as move forward.

[The committee seemed to forget all this when they voted.]

Sorry . . . bike talk . . . in summary, they haven’t implemented the changes they talked about, but Ped Bike Motor Vehicle Commission likes their proposed changes and have made some good suggestions.

PUBLIC TESTIMONY
Mary Carbine, represents the BID in the State St. and Capitol area. She is glad to see focus on bike parking, thanks them for good outreach to business owners, supports the strategic approach that doesn’t rely only on adding racks on the sidewalk. The needs can’t be met only that way, sidewalks are multi-use, so they support Robbie Webber’s great document they like added enforcement, sweeps for abandoned bike, racks in parking ramps and longer term bike parking not on the street. Wants to enlarge the discussion. On the benches, they agree with the need to balance supply and be flexible. They need to consider the relationship of physical environment and behavior and safety and business and property. In her job she looks at the police incident reports, she’s seeing issues in 500 block, very concerning to her, she passes out [random] examples to see a picture of what she is seeing and observe issues connected to people with consistent presence. There is damage to property, including those who want the benches moved, there is a drug situation, also batteries, their ambassadors are out there, behaviors on the block are at a notch below other blocks. She is asking that when talking about the issues understand that safety is a part of it and physical environment needs to be part of the discussion, not just a police issue. They asked that those consideration be a part of the discussions, they are concerned about the block.

Gary and Annie Gordon – Annie speaks, they own Monday’s at 523 State St., its kismet she is right after Mary, this is the same block and same issues, they run a college bar, they have done it for 23 years. Their business is next to BW3, which is empty now, there is a bench there and there is never anyone sitting there that is a State St. customer or people taking a walk during lunch, its always homeless people, she shows here hosta garden picture, they lay there and sleep there, she deals with cash and she doesn’t feel safe, she has been urinated on and thrown up on walking from her car. They put their stuff there all today and this is what looks like, she sees drug dealing there and Taco Bell, she sees whistles and signals, they want to put bike racks there, they have a big garbage can for State St café and almost always its not Mondays’ trash, there are no garbage cans in the area, the whole block and no trash cans, she doesn’t mind emptying mine into o dumpster, bike racks or trash cans we would love to see.

Here there was a longer discussion on bikes on State St. and how they are removed. It’s based on complaints only. They don’t do sweeps, but Verveer clearly wants them to. Sorry to skip it, but I won’t get this done otherwise! The Monday’s owner jumps in during this discussion and accuses the “homeless” of stealing and selling bikes on State St. She claims there are bikes with price tags on them sitting in the racks.

Michael O’Brien, here to answer questions, he is from Taco Bell, but someone else is speaking for them.

Mike Stone is the area supervisor for KFC/Taco Bell, he has been representing the KFC and what the lady said was perfectly applies to us, they have seen a lot of problems and customer complaints about individuals sitting on the bench. He has talked to Alder Scott Resnick and Cnare, about what to do about it and Resnick brought it here – there is a problem with the business growing, they are smoking on the bench and people complaining about smoke coming inside, there is drug dealing and a number of incidents where individuals come up in front of business and put down property and when asked to moved on – they moved to the bench. They say it is city property, they don’t have to move, the operations supervisor has repeatedly stated that these problems exist and that is why they requested that they be removed.

Bridget Maniaci asks about the benches, doesn’t understand the maps she has, how long has the bench been there.

Ted Crabb, the chair, explains they went over the maps block by block in the beginning of the meeting.

Fruhling says it is the benches by Taco Bell and Jimmy Johns.

Stone says there is also a bike rack by taco bell, we don’t think poses a problem.

Maniaci asks how long the bench been there.

Stone says it’s been there.

Fruhling says 3 or 4 years – it was part of the initial installation.

Stone says that was the previous owners.

Rosemary Lee says she has the opposite opinion of previous speakers, she has lived 43 years downtown, she is there every day, removing the benches is not a satisfactory solution, she is getting upset as are other residents, they are loyal supporter of places but as you remove amenities for those that mind their p’s and q’s you are just allowing the population to shift around and right now because kicked out of other places, they go to they philosopher stones, she went by there today at 10 to 5:00, there were 30 of them, they go there cuz displaced from someplace else, its a vicious cycle. She wants to have pedestrian concerns get taken as serious as bikes, between the homeless who commandeer the benches and those that are removed, pedestrians with heavy packages or groceries can’t find a bench. She goes to Fresh Market a University and Lake and when walking home she walks Lake to State, she can only get so far, she is 73 and has to sit down, often there is no bench, they been removed, it’s not fair. Also think about people who have physical conditions who can walk but need to sit down, she is serious, she and some other will not support those who support benches being removed, this is a problem bigger than all of us, why penalize the people who behave correctly?

*****BIKE TALK ******************** I left this in, as I found it of interest and not easy enough to summarize.

Robbie Webber – She is the Ped, Bike, Motor Vehicle Commission chair, but tonight she is here to speak for herself, but you can ask about the meeting. Just before coming over did an inventory, she counted the bikes on State St, 324 bikes, didn’t count side streets or carol, didn’t have map of the area they consider. I know for a fact that this is a low number for a nice day, at farmers market on the 100 and 200 block there are probably over 200 during farmers market (75 today), she also counted before work was over, she is assuming people will go there tonight for dinner and drinks, it will be more crowded, its a nice day. On the 600 block there were 91 bikes but only 61 spots, she didn’t count Lake or Gilman – and there are no bike racks in Hawthorne court because of B-cycle. She says she didn’t count if the bikes were in or out of the racks. She did this for two weeks at the university, they have a great system, she urges them to do a full inventory of racks and data points actually parked in areas at racks and not at racks, that will tell you demand. Its similar to car parking, we know when lots are full, but not racks, glad to hear that they are looking at who gets first dibs on sidewalk. She loves it all (benches, racks, cafes, venders etc) – it’s a lot to fit in, wonders if private vending gets priority and removes public amenities, wonders if they should have a formal policy on how those decisions are made. They discussed abandoned bikes at Ped Bike Motor Vehicle Commission, she says there is no logical place to report when there is an abandoned bike, it is not in report a problem and where you are supposed to report – bike recovery – doesn’t say abandoned bikes and people don’t know where to look at it. She has examples of the UW bike parking inventory.

Mike Verveer thanks Webber, says this is not the first time she helped us, he asks if Pedestrian Bike and Motor Vehicle Commission embrace all of the proposals?

Robbie says that she can’t remember everything in there, it was a few months ago, any place you can add racks is fantastic, but would like to see larger overall systematic plan for bike parking, but first have to know how many in what areas, not just look for spaces to put the racks, won’t meet the demand by adding racks, not enough space, but first count the demand, enumerate where people want to park and then figure out how to meet the demand.

Crabb says frustration is that there is a bike coordinator and they should they make recommendations to Pd Bike Motor Vehicles and then involve State St. Oversight, we get involved but here you saying we should take it on?

Webber says this is a multi-department issue. Traffic Engineer has the Ped Bike Coordinator, Economic Development, Engineering, Engineering, snow removal and trash, this is beyond one department or person or committee, but thinks this committee and Downtown Coordinating Committee and Pedestrian Bike and Motor Vehicle Commission are lead, they are the committees most able to come up with recommendations, need staff help as well, Pedestrian Bike and Motor Vehicle Commission doing one thing, bike racks in ramps, no one knows they are there. Transit and Parking Commission says put up signs, there are all kinds of things that can be done.

Michael Heifetz, from the Plan Commission says this is all new to him, he shares concerns of the group – should we do incremental spots or wait for a plan?

Webber says yes, she doesn’t want them to say that they have added as many as they can, we spend a lot of time on car parking, some obsess on it.

Heifetz interrupts and says he disagrees with that.

Webber says there is another report, a list of suggestions on what we can do, some short and long term.

**********************************************

Crabb asks if the police have any comments.

Lt. Dave McCaw says “no”.

Maniaci asks why the sidewalk permits are not on the map, she hears the frustration about the uses, any security issues with so much going on, there are stretches where three cafes in a row all together, she is concerned about where conflicts are?

Lt. McCaw says it depends on the time frame, its cyclical and has to do with the weather, sometimes it is crowded and its a “quality of lunch” issue, people are at the table and its close to the bench and the diners don’t appreciate what the people on the bench are talking about, they are offended and say you need to do something about this, there is no spike in crime, but maybe noise.

Cnare finds the information and says there are 60 permits for vending, various types, not arts and crafts, but in front of businesses and 43 restaurants, 17 have racks out, she has the addresses.

Maniaci says she can’t evaluate that.

Cnare apologizes but she just got the information today and “I do what I can”.

Resnick asks about incidences on the 500 block. He hands around Mary Carbine’s reports, talks about removing park benches in concrete park, he says it is a piece to solution of crime. How removing a park bench and façade changes helps you or changes position in enforcement.

Lt. McCaw says people trip over bikes, they damage the bikes or themselves, he’s a bike guy, but he would not put his bike there. The cops will, if they witness it, take a report, but don’t have bike info, some of the info can be given at a specific location. He says the stuff at central CPT (Community Policing Teams), the drug stuff is not all documented here, mostly drug transactions on benches, people sit there and that is a focal point of CPT in interest in drug transaction, they are standing there long term to sell the drugs and they sit down, 500 block is there whether there are benches or not, it will attract people because it is there.

Gary Gordon registers and speaks.

Scott Resnick asks about the drug house one block away.

McCaw says that drug hose is not the same as others, this is unique, there are two or three drop locations, its not a drive up situation, its not a house where you tap on a window, they do a third party broker deal, someone is told to stand somewhere, some get drugs somewhere else, dopers have the drugs for a short amount of time, seller doesn’t have drugs, third person has the money, they are storing off state st, makes investigations more difficult. They have had drug houses on State St, its a fluctuating experience, there always has been a place where drugs have been stored.

Resnick says issues whether benches or not?

McCaw says the drug cops like the benches, they know what to look for, they will be there waiting for people to come buy (or by?). He says it hasn’t risen to the level of the Drug and Gang Task Force, these are small deals. Its a multifaceted problem and it makes it easier for CPT to know where they are and they are still visible.

Ken Streit says it is a forum to get drugs and if move it off 500 block and likelihood of drug dealing going down is nil, that is police theory, without quite a bit of additional policing that would make it consequential.

McCaw says they always find the drugs, we won’t not do something, we always chase where we can, the amount of drugs on State St not level of Gang and Drug Task Force, this is not kilos of cocaine or bricks of drugs. The quality of life is a constant, no one wants them in the neighborhood, we just chase to another location. When they have to move from one place to another, things are bad for them.

Gordon (public) interrupts again, says the bench out front is not an issue in the day, the police there, there are night time situations, there were 8 things in 3 month period. That’s not much, not that bad on the 500 block, daytime issues are not on the issue with the benches benches.

Resnick asks them to elaborate.

A. Gordon says its the homeless throwing up and laying in the flower bed. They says it doesn’t hurt their business at Monday’s if the homeless are there, the students don’t care. However, they are down there during the day, they have been on State St. for 26 years, they are concerned about quality of street, it’s awful, its the urinating.

The Gordons then leave without listening to (or further interrupting) the discussion.

DISCUSSION
Fruhling says that request is to remove bench at Taco Bell and Jimmy Johns. He thinks they heard at least from the Gordons that a bike rack would be ok, Gary didn’t bring up possibility of moving it to the west, closer to parking lot, he didn’t bring it up tonight but mentioned it before. Those are the two requests.

Todd Barnett asks Cnare about the benches being all the same size.

She says some are 6 ft. and some are 4 ft., she didn’t put that on there, thought it would be information overload, most are 6.

Barnett asks which way to they face, do they all face up and down State St.

Cnare says no, sometimes they are back to back, some face inwards, on the corners they are L shaped becuase of the bus stop. The one’s in question are both singles, they back up to a tree.

Barnett asks if there is any relationship with problems and size of bench and orientation of the bench, can you get one-seater benches, that might allow stopping and taking a break, they might look odd, but its a compromise.

Verveer says they have 2 seaters on the 200 block.

Fruhling says they are grouped.

Barnett says resting is valid, some people eat lunch by themselves. He says the orientation, if faces street people less likely to hang out, instead of facing inward, they can only tolerate fumes for a few hours.

Jose Madera asked if they had places the benches could go.

Crabb asked about the study that they did about moving them

Cnare says honestly hard to convince someone to have a new bench because of . . . this experience. She wishes she could say yes, you can see where 6 other benches were, she doesn’t know where could put them, lots of people interested in bike racks.

Verveer says that Freedom Skate asked for bench 434 state – Fruhling says he has the note but has not talked to them yet.

Verveer says the customers are teenagers and kids an parents do not want to look at the boards, Karen Co and Sassafras are also interested so that the men don’t have to go in and can wait.

Cnare says it looks like they lost one on the 400 block, that hasn’t changes much, they have had no requests either way.

MOTION
Streit moves to remove the benches and add as much bike parking as possible, his job is sort of related to police Lt Dave McCaws, he is not terribly hopeful to totally get rid of homeless people or the concentration, it is a unique block as far as the density of that hanging out part and would like to have some kind of system of looking at htat after the fact to see if it did in fact disperse in the area around Taco Bell and Mondays and if there is a change in behavior. If we just take out benches will the stand in the same proximity? If benches removed, bike racks in and some kind of report, he doesn’t have preexisting date for it, but some kind of report back to the committee to see if there was an appreciable difference. They can just interview to see if it made a difference – he thinks it will not, if laying on top of the plants, then that won’t change, just temporarily remove.

Verveer seconds with a hopefully friendly amendment, he says there is a lack of trash and recycling, also a request from Freedom Skate shop for garbage cans, he also requests planning division work with parks on placing trash and recycling containers.

Striet says that is acceptable.

Acceptable – 400 and 500 block receptacles’

Back and forth about the 400 block.

Verveer ask Cnare – have you thought about how many more bike spaces you could fit, would they be long or short racks?

Cnare says that the 3 stall rack on bottom of page 4, they can generally can fit 3 – and 4 stall rack where bench is, they have a lot of 3 stall racks, they can swap out shorter ones for longer ones, probably add 6 – 8 stalls.

More discussion about 400 block.

Streit says that if it does not move the intended audience then we will have learned something about how we do future requests.

Maniaci asks about the pictures, plants are trampled down, for those working on design, why no fencing, was it considered in design or could we do now? If we move the bench they will just sit on the plants.

Staff says that the plants were not growing and it had to do with sunlight, so we looked at ideas of what kind of plants to use, they dug the soil, switched the plants, and they looked as using those things, but they shied away from them. There were concerns about maintenance and people tripping and hurting themselves, they found a plant hard to kill, a hosta, and at every planter this works great expect Mondays, but its the only planter in front of a bar, the only one that looks like that, we almost got it, we have been working on it for years with the plants and soils and hostas, all good except the one in front of Mondays.

Verveer says there was an email June 20, this year, Laura Bower, they were putting fencing in the bed because they talked about it at Downtown Coordinating Committee and they were asked by police to remove it, they were worried panhandlers would pull them up and use as weapons, they were threatening to do that when they were being installed, police said they just won’t work there.

Crabb says too many people at bar time, its just a standing place, its impossible.

Maniaci suggests to remove planter and have bike parking, if it is the outlier.

Resnick says he walks by it every day, there is an evolution of what is happening in front of the benches, daytime traffic issues, law enforcement, loitering or unsafe areas, people also sleep on benches, they are used by homeless population on regular basis, in this case it is an issue where we have managers and owners asking us to please remove, you have seen the law enforcement reports, benches are used during day and at night used by people who are not hurting anyone, his vote is in response to safety concerns, this is why he is voting to remove the benches, for safety and to include bikes, and trash receptacles, just be conscience of benches on State St are used for other purposes – he doesn’t want this to be used in a negative light – he does support the removal.

Maniaci announces she has to go, she has another meeting.

They vote, it is unanimous.